onefastviking

In TExas they weigh all the time, and have sealed up a hood and sent it to the dyno and or used a track dyno.

MJR911

Peter,
This is a good topic of discussion, but I suspect you already know the answer. A combination of ego, lack of enforcement/penalties, and general nature of "gentleman racing" leads to this perception. My personal opinion... bourne from being part of PCA club racing from the mid '90s (as well as working in a well known NE prep shop), watching my Dad try to win in the old "f class", racing myself in PCA and then SCCA (mostly spec miatas).

When you're new to racing, the amount of ACTUAL "cheating" is definitely less than what you think. I still stand by the fact that most of the best podium guys, in the deep PCA classes, are legit. I just smirk everytime I hear a guy say "so and so pulls me down the straight..." when I KNOW for a fact that the "accused" driver ALSO has a lot better exit speed.

With that said, there IS cheating that goes on. Nature of the sport, and business, to push the envelope. Sadly, I think PMNA is pushing this in the gtc3-4 classes, as the cup car rebuilds now have the easy option for the motor enchancements during a refresh. This is exactly what enticed me to spec miata. The REAL difference between SCCA and PCA (NASA as well), is they have a DEFINED and set ways to protest a car (and driver). It isn't full proof, but you can bet your *** that few get through the marquee events in SCCA with "cheated" cars. Of course, there is also more at stake (winning the runoffs is legit... winning H class at Sebring, not so much to anyone other than the driver). To Sean's point, there will ALWAYS be people that dyno 10 different parts, etc.

Anyway, you only have yourself to look at in the mirror. After awhile you know who the "cheaters", and you still share beer with them and listen to their BS... but the personal satisfaction of kicking their respective asses is SWEET.

Then, when you really want to measure yourself, you'll run in a series in which there is more on the line, and has better enforcement.

Cheers,
Mitch

FredC

The rules are the rules and some of them are pretty black and white. Fender flaring and suspension geometry stuff is pretty explicit. I mean they found a bump steer kit on Hupfer's car at Road America last weekend after he pulverised everyone in his class... What could PCA have done other than DQing the guy?

As for more analysis/scrutineering of engines and trannys: +1.

wanna911

There are cheaters in NASA too, quite a few of them. And lots of lap records in cheater cars. The problem with weight/power is that if all you are required to do is show up with a dyno sheet, then what? There is no dyno at the track ever (at least here). I know for a fact some cars have cheated and didn't even show up with a dyno sheet (AND OWNS A DYNO!!!!!!!!!).

The more people start showing up at NASA, the more cheaters will come too. Yes the formula is awesome, but like VR said, if it's not enforced, it's not good.

Gary R.

I agree that the rules need to be enforced, my point is we boot a guy out of class in a car he has been racing since the early 90's (AFAIK), bump guys with bump steer kits, yet the major issues seem to get overlooked. To me if you cheat and know it, your a bigger loser than anyone you will ever "beat". I really only suspect two cars after a few years of racing, so that isn't too bad I guess....

bobt993

Portable Dyno has been showing up at the NASA Mid-Atlantic events quite often now. They dyno'd me last year which helped me find out that my engine was dropping 30hp when it was running hot. The driving is much more competitive with the dyno rule being enforced.

Flying Finn

Yes but you're racing. And if you are racing but your goal is not win, then you're not racing.
(after the race is over, it doesn't matter but during, hell yes.)

Then there are those who race but aren't fast enough to win (or not even to be fast) and can't face that fact so then they need to do something.

Similar **** happens in DEs where you'd think it's even less important. There's always few of those who 1st have an old 911, then something little faster, something little more faster etc. etc.

There's a guy who was my student few years ago with a great 993. Little later he got frustrated of "996s passing me", I think got a GT3, then it was tires so got slicks, almost got a 996 cup, got a 997 S and now has a 996 turbo... He must be happier and "better" now...
Although I still pass him in my 993...

FredC

let me guess, a light blue SC and a silver/guinney green SC? What about the orange one?

Lemming

Just an FYI about the NASA GTS rule concerning dynos. You can use any dyno you want to have your car classified, but the car is to be checked on a Dynojet for any protest or official check. Thus, if your region never dynos anyone, then simply use a mustang dyno to classify your car for the advantage. And yes, it is being done by some.

PedroNole

Then you've got good people running in your class because they are routinely bumping 2-3 GTC3 cars. I'm thinking about getting some ".8" stickers made up for some people to put on the end of their "GTC3" class stickers....

smlporsche

How about the new Cayman HSR Series?

Brian P

Are the DQ'ing the folks at the front of the grid or the back of the grid? I tend to care little about the people behind me that are being DQ'd.

jakermc

Don't complain about dyno runs and scales if they aren't being used, do something about it instead.

Enforcing rules in GTS is only as good as the series director in each region. Don't have a series director? Then volunteer to be one and enforce the rules. Have one already? Talk to them and ask for the changes to be made.

If your region already has scales at the event, all it takes is for the series director to call people to them. If your region does not have them, ask for them to be purchased or take a collection from the active GTS drivers.

While the National rules do not require a Dynojet, I bet a Region could succesfully modify the rules to require one in their region (versus a Mustang). If the drivers in the series support the change, and anyone not cheating should, its easy to implement.

Gary R.

Take the guinea green/silver out and you got it!

kurt M

front of the grid know they are going to get checked. The back of the grid know little will help. The middle of the pack is bloody and game on. It is not 1, 2 or 3 the middies are looking at it is the other guy that beat him at (track and date here).