I am changing profession.......
10-23-2008, 02:05 PM
#46
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I should define my own corner types and sell some books:
Jupe Type I turn: one where you can go as fast as you can because there is nothing to hit
Jupe Type II turn: ooh, be careful, run off is minimal
Jupe Type III turn: walls of death surround the course, you might want to back off a hair.
At the Glen, I think turn 1 and 8 are both Jupe Type II turns. Pre-orders of my driving book will be available soon...
See post #2 for the answer to this thread.
Jupe Type I turn: one where you can go as fast as you can because there is nothing to hit
Jupe Type II turn: ooh, be careful, run off is minimal
Jupe Type III turn: walls of death surround the course, you might want to back off a hair.
At the Glen, I think turn 1 and 8 are both Jupe Type II turns. Pre-orders of my driving book will be available soon...
See post #2 for the answer to this thread.
Type IV turn: WTF have I done now, hang on to you hat, *** and spats!
10-23-2008, 02:10 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
I suggest taking a stroll around T8 sometime. It's actually VERY downhill...not at much as T1, but it sure as hell is "downhill".
10-23-2008, 02:27 PM
#48
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Where the driving is concerned;
I also feel the turn-in lacked conviction. This set up a "Drift In" situation where precious time and distance is wasted waiting for the car to really grab, tuck, and rotate. Many turns at many tracks are "Flick" turns for me with my car, as JimmieLew mentions. T8 at WGI definitely being one of them.
Carrying more speed in is NOT the first part of conviction. It is forcing yourself to wait for the proper turn in point. If you are looking to go deep for whatever reason, you need to have this firmly in mind. The extra entry speed will cause you to over-anticpate the turn in until you get used to it. The result of this over-anticpation is usually a "drift in."
The next part of it for me is the realization that something is not quite right, and fixing it EARLY. There appeared to be no such realization here. I'm not sure quite how you teach it other than by experiencing it and developing the sensory memory to FEEL it in your gut next time. Fixing it after the fact could be done many ways. If grip (speed) allowed, simply more steering input. A slight throttle modulation - or even a MOMENTARY lift - to tighten the line. A dab of LFB to tuck the nose. All of these would work under the right conditions. It's nice to have a full bag of tricks.
Once it was obvious that things were not going to work out as planned (which came way too late), you did everything right. Eliminate side load (straighten the wheel), modulate throttle, and do NOTHING DRASTIC until control was gained under the "new grip conditions" (meaning in the grass where there is hardly any).
Regarding the entry; still needs work. Regarding the exit; lesson learned, no charge, well done. The twirling skid marks of the guys who get the save wrong can be seen opposite the exit curb, leading to the Armco on Driver's Right!
I also feel the turn-in lacked conviction. This set up a "Drift In" situation where precious time and distance is wasted waiting for the car to really grab, tuck, and rotate. Many turns at many tracks are "Flick" turns for me with my car, as JimmieLew mentions. T8 at WGI definitely being one of them.
Carrying more speed in is NOT the first part of conviction. It is forcing yourself to wait for the proper turn in point. If you are looking to go deep for whatever reason, you need to have this firmly in mind. The extra entry speed will cause you to over-anticpate the turn in until you get used to it. The result of this over-anticpation is usually a "drift in."
The next part of it for me is the realization that something is not quite right, and fixing it EARLY. There appeared to be no such realization here. I'm not sure quite how you teach it other than by experiencing it and developing the sensory memory to FEEL it in your gut next time. Fixing it after the fact could be done many ways. If grip (speed) allowed, simply more steering input. A slight throttle modulation - or even a MOMENTARY lift - to tighten the line. A dab of LFB to tuck the nose. All of these would work under the right conditions. It's nice to have a full bag of tricks.
Once it was obvious that things were not going to work out as planned (which came way too late), you did everything right. Eliminate side load (straighten the wheel), modulate throttle, and do NOTHING DRASTIC until control was gained under the "new grip conditions" (meaning in the grass where there is hardly any).
Regarding the entry; still needs work. Regarding the exit; lesson learned, no charge, well done. The twirling skid marks of the guys who get the save wrong can be seen opposite the exit curb, leading to the Armco on Driver's Right!
10-23-2008, 02:47 PM
#49
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10-23-2008, 03:20 PM
#50
Unless I'm looking at the wrong turn, or have completely forgotten my high school geometry, T8 sure looks like less of an angle than T1.....
http://www.theglen.com/seating_charts_maps/track/
Click on "Track Data".
http://www.theglen.com/seating_charts_maps/track/
Click on "Track Data".
10-23-2008, 03:58 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Hell yeah. Go walk it sometime. A bowling ball, left to its own desires at the beginning of the braking zone, would break your ankle if it whacked you standing at the apex.
I don't know about your high school geometry class, but your might have skipped some of your "corner numbering" classes. T8 on that track map is "Radius 16& 17". T8 is significantly more than 90 degrees.
Unless I'm looking at the wrong turn, or have completely forgotten my high school geometry, T8 sure looks like less of an angle than T1.....
http://www.theglen.com/seating_charts_maps/track/
Click on "Track Data".
http://www.theglen.com/seating_charts_maps/track/
Click on "Track Data".
10-23-2008, 04:41 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Professor, in all due candor, I think you've been testing too many helmets.
On the elevation map I posted, the elevation from the toe of the boot increases to a high point at the apex of T8, 1080', constituting a (slightly) uphill braking zone. The highest elevation at the start/finish straight is the S/F line, 1090' followed by a downhill braking zone to the apex of the 90 at 1020' and then continuing downhill beyond.
As for the radius map, you correctly identify the location of T8, but the angle of that corner is without question; acute, or less than 90. The ninety, or turn 1, I suspect is named for its right angle nature.
On the elevation map I posted, the elevation from the toe of the boot increases to a high point at the apex of T8, 1080', constituting a (slightly) uphill braking zone. The highest elevation at the start/finish straight is the S/F line, 1090' followed by a downhill braking zone to the apex of the 90 at 1020' and then continuing downhill beyond.
As for the radius map, you correctly identify the location of T8, but the angle of that corner is without question; acute, or less than 90. The ninety, or turn 1, I suspect is named for its right angle nature.
10-23-2008, 05:07 PM
#54
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We don't measure turns by the angle of the track, but by how many degrees around a circle (or radius) they take us. If we measured by angle of the track, a 180 degree turn would be a straightaway...
10-23-2008, 05:08 PM
#55
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Professor, in all due candor, I think you've been testing too many helmets.
On the elevation map I posted, the elevation from the toe of the boot increases to a high point at the apex of T8, 1080', constituting a (slightly) uphill braking zone. The highest elevation at the start/finish straight is the S/F line, 1090' followed by a downhill braking zone to the apex of the 90 at 1020' and then continuing downhill beyond.
As for the radius map, you correctly identify the location of T8, but the angle of that corner is without question; acute, or less than 90. The ninety, or turn 1, I suspect is named for its right angle nature.
On the elevation map I posted, the elevation from the toe of the boot increases to a high point at the apex of T8, 1080', constituting a (slightly) uphill braking zone. The highest elevation at the start/finish straight is the S/F line, 1090' followed by a downhill braking zone to the apex of the 90 at 1020' and then continuing downhill beyond.
As for the radius map, you correctly identify the location of T8, but the angle of that corner is without question; acute, or less than 90. The ninety, or turn 1, I suspect is named for its right angle nature.
10-23-2008, 05:17 PM
#56
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjyD49bTq3c
10-23-2008, 05:20 PM
#57
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The map is misleading. T8 starts pointing downhill in the braking zone and hits its lowest point halfway between 8 and 9. It's pretty apparent while walking the track. I only remember the incline because I got to take a bmx bike on a track walk and did the boot counter-clockwise.
10-23-2008, 06:21 PM
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i'm late to this discussion, however it does look to me that he turned in too early and then did not adjust.
sounds like he was following the concept he mentioned which was to turn in early if he wants to race..............well, there's early and there's too early.
sounds like he was following the concept he mentioned which was to turn in early if he wants to race..............well, there's early and there's too early.