RonCT

We talked a lot about Cups & Saucers 2008 and I posted in a thread how I had several situations where somebody in a GT3 / Cup Car would give me a point by and then drag race me into the next turn. Me, I just kept on trucking and took the off-line entry into the turns so as not to give up the passing opportunity.

I was looking through YouTube and found this great video of somebody who got 4 point-bys and then was drag raced 4 times by one car (and one by another). Entertaining and does a good job of showing what many of us experienced.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd9hRWWVsYA

sparks259

hope you had a few choice words with that driver, especially after that bonehead move entering the bus stop, i know i would have.
btw--i've taken the run off more than once---better to be safe than start arguing about a lot of bent sheet metal, or worse.

Brian P

I think if the following car took the same approach you did (i.e., pass off-line and not give up the passing opportunity), the pass could have been made earlier. It looks like the yellow car left some room for the pass. Also, if the following car didn't pull out immediately and instead used the yellow car for a draft, there would have been less distance to make up in the braking zone.

RonCT

Ooops, didn't mean to imply that was my video - I tried to explain that I had situations, but none as bad as the guy that had 4 points and 4 drag races as shown on his YouTube video.

BostonDMD

Supposedly the culprit was an instructor........

DarkSideDE

Thank you for sharing. Do you think the Chief Instructor or Starter talked to that person....???

93 FireHawk 968

The "give a pass signal then floor it" scenario occurs frequently. I drive a lower hp car and will be given a pass signal exiting the turn only to have the driver use full throttle to the next turn. This usually continues for several turns. Once I do get by, the car I've passed will usually fade back. I completely recognize that the vehicle being passed should lnot ift completely but there needs to be some level of throttle control to allow the faster driver to go by.

The litmus test is if the car behind you fills your mirrors entering and exiting every turn, he or she is probably driving a bit quicker. Let the person go, if you find that you're filling their mirrors then they should let you go. It all boils down to track awareness with a bit of courtesy...

roberga

1: get off tell the staff and they will black flag the guy. or
2: back off and get him on another corner

The only way to fix this kind of behavior is to have them instructed by the people running the event. ******** moves can only make it unsafe;

MJR911

3: Go racing.

ilko

This clip is so frustrating to watch! The author of the video is a member here, so maybe he can chime in as well.

Ironically, in the lower run groups you have instructors specifically tell their students to ease off the throttle when giving point-bys. Sounds like a lot of the drivers at the Cups & Saucers event need a few extra instructed laps.

RJay

Sorry, just noticed the post. So you would be referring to me. It was certainly an irritating experience, but being the driver of an old beetle for a number of years now, I'm not surprised by this sort of behavior from nice shiny newish ones with lots of HP. Happens far too often, though rarely to this level of foolishness. I put the video up not for sympathy, but rather in the hopes that the author of this little chapter in my track career would someday wind up seeing it and get the reward they so richly deserve, that is the shock of looking in the mirror and seeing just how ugly the thing is thats staring back at them.

As to what I might have done sooner or what have you, at DE, my philosophy, doesnt need to be yours, is to make my presence known clearly, which means staring them down. This means being offline, but close and looking them in the eye in the sideview mirror as they turn in. When they finally get around to swiveling their head to look into the corner, they catch the stare in the mirror which normally makes them a little nervous, they ultimately get the message and after a corner or so let you by. Not, obviously, in this case.

Two things should be clear from the vid. 1) Without a running start, I cant pull a 993RS. 2) From the toe, I was using my stare technique, hounding offline expecting at worse a point on the front straight, which I got, but was unable to take (see obvious thing #1). Once onto the front half of WGI, power is king through to the braking zone for the bus stop. Failing to get around on the front straight, there was really no way to lay off a bit and take a run at them through that half of the course. I'll grant you my bad through 1. I really should have recognized that if they didnt let me go on the front straight it really wasnt going to happen down to 2. Taking a crappy line to the inside led to being an extra car length or two behind which meant that outbraking them into the bus stop wasn't going to work. But post bus stop, well, now we're now back into the realm of being able to drive corners. I undoubtedly, particularly given my elevated blood pressure, could have taken a pass in the carousel regardless of the fact it hadn't been given, but just because someone is being a jack *** one sadly obtains no writ from Uncle Bill to violate the rules. I view this non-pass in retrospect as a sign of maturity and patience in the face of all the swirling scarlet misty fog (cant believe that no red steam was visible on the video). The point and subsequent pass after the toe was forced with complete malice aforethought. I was certainly on maximum attack on the Murry line (Hey Dave that really works!) and fortunately wasn't balked as I tracked fully out, burners fully lit. With a decent head of steam, I was able to carry the speed necessary to run deep enough to finally force my way through. And of course that was a straight out drag race into 8 as well, they didnt back off there either. Once past, I was halfway down the front straight by the time they were rounding 11. Surprise, surprise.

While I must confess that anger played a role in initially putting up this vid on the web, I've come to view it more as a public service. For idiots, this is what you look like. More importantly, for those frustrated by such behavior it is somewhat of a lesson in carefully measuring who you are dealing with and maintaining enough cool to avoid an incident and eventually finding a way around without wrecking. Its pretty clear that if I were as spatially unaware as the 993 pilot and simply had my head down after the point into the bustop, the RS would have wound up on its roof. No matter how pissed off I was or depending on your beliefs relative to capital punishment how deserving a fate that might have been, it really would not have been an acceptable outcome. Far too nice a high HP beetle for that.

RonCT

RJay, I'm so glad you did post the video because it is a public service to share it with fellow enthusiasts. It's something most of us experience routinely, yet there's not much we can do about it other than spread the word that it's rude behavior. The administrators always lecture this point, but clearly, some people are not paying attention. It's not fair to have to pit-in just to let a guy like that get 3/4 of a lap ahead of you so you won't have to deal with him again in that session.

What I ended up having to do several times at Cups & Saucers when a Cup or modified GT3 drag raced me to the turn was to keep on trucking and take the turn way off-line and do my best to tuck back in. I got tagged once for "two off" in T1, but I wasn't 2 off at all - I just took an off-line late pass and used the white curbing purposely. So, I lost some time coming in to talk with Uncle Bill - same time penalty as if I just pitted in.

RJay

The danger in that approach is the driver blocking you can wake up and ultimately recognize that the reason your still there is that you are a better driver, not that your car has more motor. When that happens, they oft times point and lift at the same time. If you not careful, you can run right into the back of them.

RJay

+1.
Your welcome and thanks! While I considered talking to the stewards about it, I really didnt want to get into a pissing contest and given the whole tone of that event had gotten a little ugly, ultimately it felt like a waste of time to do so. And yes that person is indeed an instructor. I did, politely after calming down talked with them as it turned out they were paddocked less a 100 ft from me and were sharing the space with people I know pretty well. I didn't personally know the driver beforehand, but once I figured out who owned the car, I mentioned to this person, "Really nice car, you need to learn to lift a little after a point though." The reply was, "Oh what are you driving?" After pointing at my car the response was, "Oh yeah I gave you a point on the front straight."

That was the extent of our conversation. They simply had no clue just how close they came to a shunt. Unbelievable. I figured if they were that clueless, there was no point in discussing it further, particularly as I didnt want to get into it and force our mutual acquaintances to take sides.

DarkSideDE

RJay - You write that he is an instructor. My heart goes out to the next generation of DE folks then - what is he teaching them?