RonCT

RJay and everyone else reading this - please do "get into it" with anyone like this that risks all of our safety out there on the track. Easy enough to do without getting nasty - just a recap like "Hey, it would be really helpful if when you give a point-by you ease off the throttle so I can get by you". Response from offender "Oh, what were you driving... yah, I gave you a point..." Reply "Yes you did - 4 of them - but I don't have the power to pull past you when you floor the throttle as soon as you give the point by, you need to ease back on the power to let me get by - would you like to see the video so you can see what I mean?"

And I always let the organizers know so that they can help fix the problems for everyone concerned. You were probably one of 20 people he was drag racing down the straight. You know, he was probably one of the guys that I was dealing with too.

Noel

Good video Ron (RJAY). It is ridiculous that this guy in an instructor, between the lack of apexes he hits and the poor track awareness, I don't want him instructing others. However, in some regions, the buddy system of instructor promotion still prevails.

As a driver of a 172hp SC, I often experience this too. Thanks for the public service announcement.

See you at the Glen in June.

dboyle

Ahhh the fun topic of pointing...

I for one have almost to a fault been a pointer, if I am in a train I start feeling guilty that I am holding the guy up behind me, not that I am being held up by the guy in front! I in no way believe I can actually drive my car to the point that it deserves, or could be driven with a competent person driving.

With that said however it has been interesting to see the evolution of both my habits and those in the run groups I am in. I am recently signed off into white after a few years of running in instructed groups. I can say with no hesitation that cars with instructors usually are worse with point byes that people without instructors.

Most of the time it is the simple high HP car vs' straight. The person gets to the passing zone, looks in their rear view and sees a 16 year old 964, looks down at their nice 997 turbo dash and floors it. I catch them by the apex of the next corner and we repeat, over and over and over...

Last day up at the track there was a guy who usually runs in black than came down to white, he was probably _easily_ 10 seconds per lap faster. Slicks, the whole deal. I would literally see him coming onto the front straight while I was passing start/finish and just point out and lift.

It does amaze me that people would point and then not let people pass (forget multiple times!), I have only waved off a few passes that I thought were late. I no longer do that

So RJay perhaps he saw you getting aggitated and thought that was you waving the pass off Really quite amazing to watch the vid... Hope karma gets the guy.

Potomac-Greg

WOW. If this was a green groupie, I might understand that s/he just doesn't understand the concept of lifting, and how a lower HP car can be faster than a high HP car. But it's inexcusable from instructors.

I also tend to give up 100 to 200 HP and run in an instructed group. With good suspension and R-compounds, I end up in this situation a LOT. Sometimes folks with HP don't appreciate how incredibly SLOW 150 HP is, and it's not a question of feathering the throttle, they need to GET OUT of the throttle and let me by. In almost all cases, I've been happy with point-bys.

RJay

I have, up to this point, refrained from revealing one aspect of this incident as frankly its not really germane, but given all the comments, I do feel compelled at this point to mention that I, and this was done very carefully, never refer to the driver as 'he'. Draw from this what conclusions you will.

trackjunky

O.K. I just watched the video.

Afterwards I kicked the dog, punched a hole in the wall, and screamed "Mother F******&&&Ker" out my back door.

O.k. Settled down now.

BTW: What's with the white gloves? That a New York thing?

DogInBlack

Thanks for sharing the video and your track logic, RJay!

Potomac-Greg

On a sub-issue, I noticed a situation in the first 20 seconds of the video and I'd like some input. When you have a 3 car (or more) train, if you are in the middle (#2), it is my view that the choo-choo up front should point by the #2 car and then the #3 car, and then the #2 car would point by the #3. In other words, if you're on my tail because I'm backed up behind a choo-choo, I can wait to give you a point-by until after I get my point-by.

Scootin159

If I know from previous laps that the car behind me is quicker, or if I noticed they were slowly gaining on me before I caught the train, I will let #3 by before #1 lets me by.

But if I either don't know, or know from previous experience (either earlier sessions, or maybe I just was given the point by) that I am quicker, I will keep #3 behind me until after I get by #1... if after a few corners I see #3 still behind me, then I'll give the point by.

dbryant61

R-Jay,

I had virtually the exact same experience at the Zone 2 DE at VIR in March. Four point-bys in a row exiting the Snake, Oak Tree, Hogpen, and the Snake again, in Black (for FSR that is Advanced Solo), by a very experienced driver who is a friendly acquaintance. He had a decent hp/wt advantage over me and would pull me 10-15 car lengths on each straight. I approached him after the run in a joking, fake-mad, boistrous tone - "Hey _____, how 'bout a lift?" We talked for a minute and he could not believe that I could not catch him. Read Noel's car description and you basically have mine (168 hp/178 ft=lbs @ rear wheel and 2800 lbs w/drover).

I see no other solution than talking mano y mano. Much better to hear it directly than to be filtered through a CTI or DE Chair, IMO. Unless you want to try a bump-draft.

After watching your video, the only thing I thought of doing differently was not to move off-line but to stay squarely behind him very close and fill up his rear-view mirror (which he obviously does not use).

smankow

I've also taken the approach of mano y mano with mixed results. Usually, it is the best approach.

I had a BMW guy (an instructor) pass me in black w/o a signal under a black flag at a PCA event. He was paddocked near me and I made mention about the pass. If I didn't have a cool head, there would have been swings at SP. Prior to the black flag, a car broke down in the carousel (white flag) going through T5. Traffic picked up a bit but was still heavy due to the car. By the time we exited T10, the black was out at start/finish (and that's where he passed me - right in front of the black flag).

And, if the person is an instructor in your region, it may have future ramifications for you.


Steve

M758

I would agree with that. However being the race group makes life much easier.

Potomac-Greg

Agree. My most recent instructor had me do that. It is more likely that the slug will see you in the RVM than in the side mirror. And, if he (or SHE) sees you to his inside entering a turn, he (or SHE) could freak out thinking that you're pulling a dive-bomb pass, and maybe do something stupid(er).

smankow

I've often heard "make them earn the pass". I agree to some extent (depending on the car), but if I give you a pass and you don't wave it off, my job is to make sure that you get by. However, I also try to stay with you, too.

In a White Group classroom last year or so, Larry Herman described the timing of a pass. When executed correctly, neither car should loss momentum that would allow a 3rd car to pass both of you.

Astroman

Holy sh*t that video was funny. The editing was perfect and the "amazing how fast you can do 6 on the inside" comment was classic. Was the Jane's song title deliberate as well?? (for those of you who don't remember Jane's Addiction, the song is named "Stop!").

Thanks for making it.