jimmc8

I understand that that the new regulation is : Both student and instructor shall have the same restraint system. All vehicles must be equipped with a properly installed lap and shoulder restraint system - but . . . here's the situation.

1) Wife - really likes the sports seats in my 997, with all of the adjustments and lumbar support.
2) Me - I LOVE DE's and lapping days.
3) Existing leather seats - not so good (crap) for keeping me in place on the track.
4) New seats suitable for 6 point harness - not gonna happen and still have my wife talking to me.

So, is this a workable solution? I think that It meets the letter of the new regulations AND it would stil leave access to the rear for loading stuff.
- OEM GT3 seat (easy to change from 3 to 6 point harness) on the drivers side with a BK harness brace.
- Leave the the passenger seat alone and then when I have a DE instructor it would have to be just 3 point belts for both of us.

Will this be legal or can someone suggest a workable solution for me?

MUSSBERGER

I think you answered your own question at the beginning of your post. The restraints have to be equal.

David 23

Has your wife sat in the OEM GT3 seats? My wife loves ours.

LVDell

very simple. same seats, same restraints. PERIOD.

Geoffrey

"very simple. same seats, same restraints. PERIOD."

Not exactly. You need to have the same restraint system types if you have two people in the car. You can have a GT3 seat in the driver's side and a Recaro seat in the passenger side. You can have a Schroth 6pt belt set on the driver's side and a Simpson 6pt belt set on the passenger side. Same types, but they are not "the same".

I know that in some Regions, they would accept a GT3 seat used with 3pt harnesses and a stock seat with 3pt harnesses with two people. Not all Regions feel the same, and I'm not voicing an opinion either way.

LVDell

So driver gets a GT3 bucket and Schroth harness system and the passenger gets a Recaro seat and Simpson belts. Why? Seriously, why would somebody do that? My assumption is that the driver is too cheap to have the SAME setup for the passenger. Geoffrey, what you referred to was SIMILAR, not SAME. If the driver is too cheap to install the SAME equipment for the person who is to instruct them then they do not get the benefit of instruction. Simple. If you are "cheaping" out on your instructor, what message does that send? All restraint systems are NOT created equal.

The new safety rules that are in effect already in some regions and PCA-wide 1st of the year are one's that need to be taken seriously. If you have harnesses, you must have the ENTIRE "system". If you have a specific type of setup on the drivers side, then the same must be on the passenger side if you have an instructor. There is no latitude to personal interpretation on this one. I am sure there are going to be a certain amount of people that will fail this and also those that "cheap out" on the passenger side. I am sure we will "pass" if it is within reason, but ask yourself why the driver did this?

M758

racing seats are expensive. so are harnesses. My 944 spec car uses a sparco pro2000 with schroth 6pt harness on the driver's side. On the pass side I used a Kirky Aluminum seat with my expired for racing sparco 6pt harness. The harness is still in good condition and is perfect for the 2-3 times use it sees. Plus I got the seat for $50 instead of the $600 a FG seat would be. Both are securly mounted. For me the money saved on the seat is a set of tires. The money saved on the harness is an entry fee.

The idea of needing the exact same set-up is crazy.

Geoffrey

Dell,

You have some excellent points and I don't necessarily disagree with them. As I said in the post, I am not expressing an opinion here, only stating what is allowed by some Regions.

Joe, I think you touched on exactly why this discussion is so difficult and why I didn't want to express an opinion. Can you have an FIA cert harness set on the driver's side and an SFI cert harness on the passenger side assuming they are current with thier cert? Can you have a Schroth 2/3 Hans on the driver's side and a standard Schroth 3" on the passenger's sdie? Can you have a sparco seat on the driver's side and a recaro on the passenger side? Can you have a 5pt on the driver's side and a 6pt on the passenger's side?

LVDell

Totally concur Geoffrey. It's approaches to safety like Joe P (right before your post) that I was referring to. What is "crazy" is thinking an instructor is worth less than you and is worthy of nothing more than expired belts that appear "still good" and a $50 aluminum seat. Joe, I seriously hope you were being comical and not serious.

James-man

My car has rear seats. I want at least one of my front seats to be able to fold forward to be able to get kids back there. 75% of my track driving will be me alone.

So is the best idea to get 2 folding seats that can accommodate harnesses, or stick with the stock seats and shoulder belts? Or get 2 different front seats but similar harnesses?

Single purpose cars are easy to make decisions with. Things get complicated with dual purpose cars. But how complicated could it be? After all, dual purpose cars are driven by cheapskates that will always compromise safety. That sounds simple enough.

Is my exaggeration here that much of an exaggeration?

DM993tt

Get a divorce.

MUSSBERGER

"Equal Restraints: Both student and instructor shall have the same restraint system. All vehicles must be equipped with a properly installed lap and shoulder restraint system."

Taken from PCA website

LVDell

What I did with my last track car before I got my GT3 was to have a complete set of GT3 buckets and harnesses. If I (or my wife) was going to instruct or be instructed I would install the passenger side setup as it is on the drivers side. Then, when the weekend was over, I would remove the seats, harnesses, and bar in all under 1hour and install the stock seats back and it was a daily driver for my wife until the next event. Simple as that.

you are correct assuming that anything less is being a cheapskate without regard for the person riding in the right seat. it all comes down to the simple colloquialism "if you wanna play, you gotta pay". If you can't then you have no business participating in this hobby if you intend to have somebody in the right seat.

Geoffrey

Just to be sure the facts are straight, the following is from the Minimum Standards for DE events published by PCA National and posted in a .PDF file on the ADMIN section of the PCA Website.

"Equal Restraints: Both student and instructor shall have substantially the same restraint system. All vehicles must be equipped with a properly installed lap and shoulder restraint system."

"substantially the same" does not mean "exactly the same"

I'm not advocating unsafe behavior here, just pointing out that there needs to be a reasonable approcah to interpretation of the rules.

LVDell

Then how do me determine that the seats and harnesses are "substantially the same"??? This would infer that if you want to cheap out then the seats and harnesses need to be........of like quality? same expiration dates? same level of certification? what then?

Just trying to get a more clear understanding.