M758

So if the only other student has a stock seat and 3pt belts... Is that safer? What if the only other instructors around are "little guys"? Do you send this guy home?

jimmc8

WOOPS Sorry, I didn't mean to start a s**t storm - but you have to admit that this is all a very interesting situation that needs some more clarification.

So, is the answer that can I leave the stock 3 pointers AND install a 6 point harness AS WELL on the drivers side so that if/when there is an Instructor the 3 point system would be used on BOTH sides? Or is it that if there is a 6 point harness available on the drivers side that it must be available on the passenger side?

This is not about being cheap or trying to sacrifice safety. James-Man has hit the nail on the head.

If this is all a no-go, then maybe it'll be amunition for me that I "have to have another track specific car"

M758

Well I believe if you had a 3pts on both sides and a harness only on the driver's side you would be "legal" by yourself using just the 3pt so that both had the 3 point. That assumes that both use similar seats. (both reclining street seats or both fixed racing shells with safe mouting for 3pts).

Even so I am not sure I would be comfortable what that as driver or even instructor. As an instructor equal restraints are good, but I am very cautious about not letting a driver run a well installed 6pts and downgrading to 3pts right as we go out. I mean if got to the car and he has two recliing seats with routing for harness and has his harness on the driver's side, but only a 3pt on my side I could require him to remove the 6pt and use just the 3 point. However I am never comfortalble with removing safety stuff right there when it so clearly could be used properly. That is my personally opinoin and each instructor may view it differently.

Truth be told the entire subject of harneses, seats, roll bars and equal restraings in dual use DE/street cars is complex issue. 95% of the time it comes down to trading some safety for street ability and the issue is where to draw the line. In the world of racing the line is drawn and nealy always safety wins out over street-ability. In DE is just not that simple.

AlpharettaRK

To further stir the pot: At the Peachstate DE here in October we learned that bolt-in harness bars are not OK for mounting the harness. I have identical Sparco Pro 2000 seats on both sides of my race car, but my Autopower cage only had harness mounting on the driver's side. A couple of years ago I bought a Weltmeister harnes bar and used it just for the passenger harness. As of January this is a no-no, the harnessess must be mounted to the floor or to a welded in portion of the cage(according to the guy from national, I don't recall his name). As it turns out I got a piece welded to my cage by Robinson Racing for $65, cheaper than the harness bar - I should have done that to start with. Anybody want a harness bar cheap? Between Chatterboxes and safety stuff I'm sure I've spent all of my instructor fees on being an instructor.
I agree on the equal safety issue, but I think identical is pushing it. Frequently it is a very tight fit to get folks in the Pro 2000 seat, if I did it over again I probably would buy a wider seat for the passenger and possibly a narrower seat for me.
There's been some conversation about tilt and recline seats, I don't think there are any that have crotch strap routing or am I mistaken? The other point this guy made was that 4-point setups (no crotch belt) are out even if they are the same left and right. If you're not running the factory 3 point belts you basically have to have at least 5 point belts on both sides with seats that have routing for the 5/6 point setup
Cheers
Randy

smlporsche

There are a couple of instructors I know that will not get in a car UNLESS they can wear their HANS due to the higher speeds even green drivers can get to with current model cars. As one told me thare isn't an airbag that will save you at 120MPH going into a concrete wall...

Food for thought.

MUSSBERGER

Mussberger Out!

TheOtherEric

That has always been the case! Brey Krause says very explicitly that you should NOT mount harnesses to their "harness GUIDE bars". They should never have allowed mounting to a guide bar.

shiners780

You mean this is no good???

AlpharettaRK

I don't know about the B-K bars, but the weltmeister were sold as mounting points...

http://www.automotion.com/ProductPag...755#anchorLink

Sean F

the safest approach is to contact the head of DE or chief instructor in your region and ask. That's what I did when I set my car up and had a question regarding harnesses. I was planning on buying the two inch HANS specific shoulder belts and wanted to know what to get for the passenger seat. Seems trivial, but I was green and didn't want to f*ck it up. BTW, I have two different seats. I have a Recaro Profi SPG seat for me and the XL version for the passenger seat (to better accommodate the instructors with more to strap in )

Mike K.

(to better accommodate the instructors with more to strap in )

That's why I put the narrow one on the passenger side. I was hoping that only a slim, female instructor would fit. Things didn't go according to plan.

kurt M

Talk to the Tech Chair. He/she is the one that makes the first call. The instructor makes his own call when he does his initial inspection and walk through with you. If he/she does not fit the system or does not want to ride in an other wise conforming car you get another instructor. 6'4" instructors are not often successfully put in Boxsters as an example.

6 years of DE tech as a chief of tech, I used this as Kings Solomon's sword.

If the system in the right side conforms to the rules and and the system on the left conforms to the rules and they are of the same method it should pass. Color or equipment name aside if the system is OK by the rules side by side it is OK. "Type" means 5 or 6 point harness with seat and correct seat mounting. One could be alloy one can be composite. Each on their own have to be passing install and gear. Both together have to work to the same end.

You can be safe and sane and not take things to a level that is not reasonable or reasonably obtainable The system ether passes the rules as written or it does not. The right is ether conforming to the same rules as the left or it is not. If the left seat is poorly mounted or not a legal type for the belt system used it fails for that not for being different.

rickdm

I don't think there are any that have crotch strap routing or am I mistaken?

The Recaro Speed is a reclining seat with a sub strap and routing for the shoulder belts.

Techno Duck

To the instructors and experienced DE crowd, will it be frowned upon if i show up to a DE with a Sparco Evo on the drivers side and stock sport seat on the passenger? I do have a 6-pt belt on the drivers side also. The car stemmed from auto-x where hardly ever do i ride with a passenger. I want to get into DE next season, but also want to have the right equipment. I have no problem using the 3pt belt with the Sparco seat at a DE.

I know the actual rules vary from region to region, but i figure the general feeling will be the same throughout.

I am planning on buying a reclining Recaro, Sparco or Momo seat and matching 6pt harness, its just a question of do i drop another $800 into the car now and blow my entry fee budget, or save up and do a few DE's first. Will it be frowned upon if i have a shell on the drivers side and a recliner on the other? My car does see street use and i cant imagine my girlfriend or any other passenger being to excited about riding in my car ever again with a fixed back seat.. also i understand people come in a multitude of sizes and figure a recliner is the most 'flexible' with a variation of waist and bust sizes.

frayed

How about you spend more time on track, get solo'd, then switch your driver's seat?

FWIW, lots of cars in this area do not have identical passenger/driver seats and harnesses yet still run in the PCA events.