mark kibort

I had my first racing contact in about 6 years and, in my opinion, was just one of those racing incidents. The guy i made contact with was driving an S2000 in an ITE SCCA race this last weekend. He had the lead when i got a good run off a prior turn and was able to get on the inside under acceleration and kept a nose ahead under braking and turn in. The S2000 elected to try his chances on the outside to retain his lead, discounting our entry speed and my now committed exit line. he basically kept his foot in it and we made door to door contact. I ended up passing down under one of the faster corners a few laps later, but after the race, he protested due to the damage in the contact changing his rear toe (in or out). (funny, one of his faster laps were on the next lap and my pass on him was on that lap as well).

I think the racing protest activities have gotten a little silly, especially when there is little contact and the contact happens in a situation where either driver could have backed out and avoided it. when there is a punt, or someone bites off more than they can chew under braking and slams in to someone and gains a position, sure, its probably warranted. But in this video, does anyone see any fauld on either side here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beX164b2GbY

mk

d15b7

hi!

i race with NASA, mostly. about the last 6 yrs or so. i watched the clip carefully, and i'd say that it was a racing incident; no malice intended.

but, i'd say you made a mistake. you were on the inside, and he was on the outside. side by side. at that point, he stayed on the outside, and didnt give. you stayed on the inside, and didnt give. you needed to expect to slow enough that you could complete the turn, without using up the track that he was occupying.

you went a bit too fast, and tracked out into the area he was occupying.

this is just my opinion. and i am no race official, by any means!

and i am not the kind of driver who would have protested. but i would have walked over into your pit, and spoken to you about the incident. i like to try to just be friendly, and talk that kind of thing out, without involving the stewards, if possible. especially because that seemed to be very light contact. NASA encourages any contact to be discussed, and relayed to an official; most times, i just speak with the other driver, first. and after we talk, we might fill out the form, and hand it in. if it was very minor, we usually just shake hands, and have something to drink!

todd

mark kibort

I think you called it right. I think i knew the risk, and took it. I think, being a smart driver, so did he. He decieded to take the chance that i could give him all the room he needed to the outside, my video showed i did try to narrow the exit, but couldnt give him the room needed based on my turn in speed.
however, what the camera doesnt really show, is that he had a few inches to the outside he could have used, but elected not to. i think all we needed was a few more inches and we would have been clean. (however, it could have been worse on the final turn if i didnt let up like i did after the contact! )
I do come from the school that says, who ever wins to the turn, even by a nose, kind of has the right away to the turn. If i had been on the outside, i would have given it up on the exit, unless i saw there was room.

But I do agree with you, and so did the officials and cornerworkers. Just though i would ping the group. Next time, i probably would wait and not make the low percetage move and do the move i ended up using to make the pass stick in the end.

mk

TheOtherEric

I agree with Todd. Looks like neither of you would give up the corner, and it does appear he stayed left. Seems like he was well ahead of you and sufficiently left when you hit him.

However, I don't think he could complain too much since you were ahead of him going into the corner, yet he refused to give it to you.

Geo

IMHO not quite Mark. You made the turn-in and he came with you. It was incumbent upon you to not hit him IMHO. He kept a good outside line and never pinched you on exit even.

Now, the classic pass would have been to brake deeper into the turn in a straight line. That way you block his turn-in and he has a choice of either droving off the track or conceed the corner. That is not a dirtbag move, that is a classic pass and one I've done many times. You simply gave him the opportunity to turn in with you. You shouldn't have IMHO. Since you were on the inside, you could have taken to the far edge of the track to brake before turning in. NO WAY could he turn in and he would have HAD to conceed.

IMHO it's a racecraft error that let him in and an control error that made the contact.

Not trying to be a jerk, but you asked.

Geo

BTW, I think protesting that was a weenie move. I too would have simply had a conversation with you after everybody cooled down a bit (physically - you know, get the car settled, get out of race gear, not cool down emotionally). Shoot if it were the last race of the day I might even bring over a beer just to relax the conversation.

A.Wayne

The driver with the lead and the line wins the corner , by having the inside line he has to track out , mark was half a car ahead under braking and ahead at the apex The GR drover in the S2000 made the choice not to concede the corner and turned in then tracked out mark hit him on track out in the rear making it your error mark , as he drove you hard on the exit , next time carry your braking a little deeper to push him to the out side where he would have to concede, this would have been better ,but both of you accepted this risk by going side by side, he was just wacked and upset , someone has hit his girlie car, i find this kind of driving and girlie protesting becoming more typical in the SCCA...it's sad

Geo

BS!! This is racing, not DE or something that requires Nomex skirts.

If you let the other guy in, it's your own bloody fault. There are no gimmies in racing. You have to TAKE IT. That is why you cut off the turn-in for the guy on the outside. If you let him in, you've just given up your advantage. Forget gimmies. TAKE IT.

A.Wayne

I did not say you have to give it to him i said he had the lead to the corner , on exit he has to track out or concede the gas pedal works both ways for both of them if no room boom , if you take to the outside you assume this risk , as no pass is made without the co-operation of the driver being passed, and you are right it is not DE , if i was in the 928 and the honda tried that he would be dirt tracking......

A.Wayne

A conversation about what , That you got passed and then tried to get it back and got wacked , LOL, it was a battle for the corner and he got tapped , if it was a pro race he would be in the weeds or have gotten tapped the same way , it was racing i do not see anything wrong with the incident , booth assumed that risk .....

aeshultz

Where's that Popcorn icon?
My observation is that opinions here will reflect the series that you drive in - the PCA/Vintage background guys will say" you owned the corner", the SCCA guys will mirror Geo.
Looked like "just racin' "to me.

hacker-pschorr

Last lap of Sebring?

garrett376

Opinions will vary by club... If you race with the POC, you would be at fault for that move and likely receive a 13/13 and be removed from the event.

A.Wayne

there is more agreement than dis-agreement , the big heavy 928 was ahead into the corner , the s2000 has to assume something occupying the outside line , the incident was minor has nothing to do with SCCA , hsr, pca , imsa etc ...

The Scca tends to bump alot and unnecessarily with of course exceptions ( GT, DSR etc) in the sedan classes bumper cars rule mostly because of the type of racer and min. car value ......

A.Wayne

LOL,
The Same incident just happened while watching SCCA Speed touring race