David 23

Trying out posting my first video link. A few laps of the 3.1 course at MSR.
Tips encouraged, I'm here to learn.

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...gAnch=imgAnch1

Larry Herman

Wow, that track make me dizzy. I can't comment on your line, as I do not know that track, but it seems like you have a lot of steering input and are fighting some understeer. I also notice that you need to maintain that steering input right up to track out, which reinforces my premise. Hope that helps a little.

Veloce Raptor

OK, David, here are a couple of suggestions, in numerical order beginning with Big Bend (T1):

T1: after you apex, release a littrle bit more steering lock, and don't be in such a hurry to bring the car back to the left down that straightaway; let the car settle & gather more speed w/front tires straight before gently bringint back across the track

T3: the left at the top of Rattlesnake; swing a little farther right coming out of T2 (the entry to the Snake) and wait a moment longer before turning in for 3 so you apex later and get less understeer as you try to build speed back down the hill; in other words, make a broader arc here; 911's are especially good with doing this, since you can sort of pendulum the rear end to air rotation

T5: the first turn into the new section; I strongly recommend that you get right to the apex, and not displace it even by a few inches; the reason is that track out is horribly off-camber & ungrippy; if you get right to the apex, your track out will only be 2/3 of the way to track left, and well on the flat grippy section, and you will be able to unwind steering & get back to WOT much sooner, with more stability

T6: the left down the hill, very nice turn in & track out here, good momentum; HOWEVER, the following esses, you hig the left curb almost all the way down; I recommend you stay wide coming out of 5, and only come into that long left side apex about half way down; it will give you (a) a much straighter sprint down the hill, and much less back & forth body roll/instability as you then have to bring the car right for the brake zone of T7 at the bottom of the hill; the more stable you can be under braking there, the less brake you will need

T7: you need to use the alligator strips on the entry curb on the right a lot more in order to broaden the radius of T7; this will allow you to get back to throttle much sooner there, as it is really a very fast corner

T8: the uphill hairpin; you need to do more of your rotation earlier; you are actually adding steering lock as you get to the apex; rather, you should firmly turn the car in there, and be starting to unwind lock as you get to the apex & throttle; this may require slightly different turn in points, I can't tell from this tiny video; but you have to rotate early, unwind early there to get an aggressive launch up that steep hill

T9: the toilet bowl; my suggestion here is that as you come down the hill, parallel the right side curbing for a lot longer, and pretty much hug it intil you are nearly finished braking; this will put you a lot closer to mid track at turn in instead of far track left, and will allow you to carve the corner a lot closer all the way around; advantages=you have a longer brake zone, you drive many many fewer feet, and you stay out of the noticeable marbles at the track edge

T10: the last left hander before entering the old section; you are approaching into the brake zone way too far to the right; be no more than 1 car width to the right of mid track and wait until you are at the grass to turn in; this will give you a longer straight brake zone, and allow you toapex later & unwind steering earlier & get back to WOT sooner; you are turning in early from way too far to the right and apexing early with huge amnounts of steering lock, which really hinders your exit speed up the hill

T11: Ricochet you are good

T12: Little Bend; as you exit Ricochet, you ar egetting too far left on that straightaway; stay 1 car width away from the left track edge all the way down, and turn in when you get to the grass in T12; look at your video--notice that there is one more cone there AFTR you turn in; you want to actually brake a little later & brake almost to that cone (track edge) and then turn in there; this will give you a bit of a later apex, still allowing you to use the apex camber, and a straighter, faster exit out of there (plus it lengthens the time you are at WOT from Ricochet, which = more speed)

T13: good; unwind a little more lock at apex; means you will track out a little bit farther left, but you have the space, and it will make you faster for that short chute

T14: turn in a little morte crisply & then begin to unwind lock earlier here to manage understeer & catch any oversteer; you still have a lot of lock way up that hill while you are trying to accelerate

T15/16: looks nice

Hope this helps, David

George A

David, it looks pretty good to me. I like the way you take the first left (downhill) on the new section. Much better than the way I tried in the video I sent you. I tried something and it didn't work but I stuck with it for the entire race. The only part I do different is Horseshoe, I stay tight at the beginning and wind out for Boot Hill and Tombstone.

Larry, it is a very busy track. You get no time to rest.

George

George A

Damn Dave, why not write a book? BTW, most displace T5 because it's starting to tear up at the apex. I try to straddle it by putting my right wheels on the curbing. I disagree with part of your T12 (Little Bend) assessment, I like to turn in early there (way early). Remember, 911's are pretty easy to rotate. Plus, I think the ground I make up by going in early more than makes up for the lost speed in the short little straight to Buzzard Neck.

G.

Veloce Raptor

On T5, despite it tearing up, you have got to get to the apex, bump & all, IMO. It is the only way to safely exit away from the big camber change. Or straddle like you do, which is a big tougher to do properly.

As for T12, I also turn in a bit early there for the same reason, but I still line up a car width from track left, for the reasons I specify. My point was to get him on the proper line before he tries the smaller nuances to get more mid corner speed.

Glen

Watch out for the gators, rattlesnakes are dangerous, ricochet can really snap back at You, Your lions look scary also...

Veloce Raptor

LMAO...

David 23

This is all very helpful. I really appreciate the constructive comments, and will take them to heart. This is the reason I really like this forum.

On T5 I was indeed trying to displace the apex some to get below the torn up pavement, however later in the day I just said screw it and went thru it, much tighter to the apex curb, and it didn't create as much drama as I feared. Maybe because I am on softer springs (450/675) helped run thru the chop?
I agree I should move over a bit more to the right going into Little Bend, I clearly need to get more consistant about my turn in point there. Later in the day I tried turning in earlier, and it seemed a little faster at exit.

I will try the suggestion going down the hill. Makes sense to me. At the bottom of the hill in the new section, I know I need to move further right, and use more rumble strip at braking. Again, that was something I did a little better later in the day, with less braking and consequently faster thru the turn.

Just as a point of information (not an excuse) I was on a $100 set of thrashed MPSC, with the fronts reversed, and 265 rears, so I was pretty traction challenged. I know that accounted for some of the understeer and some of the extra steering correction. I have a new properly sized set ordered, and looking forward to trying out the tips suggested here.
I'm always open to more suggestions, and thanks to those that have contributed.

jakermc

I was out running with David on Saturday. His tires were pretty well used up and just kept getting worse, losing 2 seconds at the end of the day from his early sessions.

I have a question about Turn 8, the uphill hairpin. In the morning I drove to the apex and seemed to struggle holding speed and traction until I reached track out. In the afternoon I tried something different, instead of turning tight to the apex I turned in and drove up the hill kind of mid-track. There are three sections of the pavement and I drove the middle section. I ended up tracking out early but was parrallel to the track edge when I got there, allowing me to go to WOT earlier. I hit red line in 2nd gear a bit earlier using this approach, so it must have been better than the morning runs but still not ideal? What do you think, stupid idea or not?

My times weren't fast, but VERY consistent. Across 3 sessions I had 15 clean laps (the 5 middle laps of each session). All 15 laps were within 0.5 seconds, or about 0.3% variance. Now I just need to get comfortable on a few sections and trust myself to carry more speed (uphill before the toilet bowl, T5 with the asphalt patch, etc.)

Greg Smith

I found this didn't work because at that point I was still braking, and if I touched the gator strips my ABS went haywire.

Veloce Raptor

I am rolling off the brakes as I roll on the gators. Brake a little early, then back to power way early.

Greg Smith

I'll try that next time.

David 23

Sounds like a good way to do that corner.

George A

Greg, I do the same as Dave describes. If I'm braking hard on the gators, it does make my ABS kick in pretty hard.

G.