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I just got a response from the PCA Audit Committee telling me that PCA did nothing wrong.
Not a single answer to my questions. Not a single justification for their decisions. PCA is right - Todd is wrong.
Where is the minimum standard? How was the medical committee formed and who do they report to? I asked so many questions and they didn't answer a single question.
You don't have to agree with me, and you might even think what I am fighting about is stupid, but PCA just doesn't give a $hit about right or wrong. They are going to do whatever they want to do and they aren't even embarrassed about how they go about doing it!
Instead of receiving the email below I would have preferred PCA to tell me to just go f*ck myself. At least that would have been more honest.
Hey, didn’t you say that your doctor made a mistake and that you were incorrectly diagnosed with OSA when in reality you are fine? I think that would make all of this moot, no? 🧐
It's surprising they didn't answer any of the questions. Previously when they have been accused with financial wrong doing, they actually responded to the accusations. Here they just gave you the big old GFY.
It's surprising they didn't answer any of the questions. Previously when they have been accused with financial wrong doing, they actually responded to the accusations. Here they just gave you the big old GFY.
Not surprising to me at all. They have the power, and are flexing it. To provide a point by point response to a bunch of accusations would show weakness and set a bad precedent for them. And they surely don’t appreciate all of this being aired publicly, so no longer in any mood to cooperate, compromise, or admit any fault.
I think this was the wrong fight to pick, and fought in a way that was destined to not be won. I advise against escalating this to a lawsuit, because that will be lost too. Luigi will realize that if he thinks about it impersonally.
I think this was the wrong fight to pick, and fought in a way that was destined to not be won. I advise against escalating this to a lawsuit, because that will be lost too. Luigi will realize that if he thinks about it impersonally.
Don't think that’s gonna happen at this point, or ever even was gonna happen.
If he wants to club race with PCA, he needs to give them the data they want.
Luigi won’t do that so it’s pretty much over.
He won’t budge, they won’t budge, and the world will go on…..
Don't think that’s gonna happen at this point, or ever even was gonna happen.
If he wants to club race with PCA, he needs to give them the data they want.
Luigi won’t do that so it’s pretty much over.
He won’t budge, they won’t budge, and the world will go on…..
And that will be the time for others in CR who believe in the rule of law, and what Todd has been doing to vote with their $’s; refuse to race and move to other racing organisations.
Luckily, Luigi has other opportunities to race. Perhaps his former comrades will also grow disillusioned and join him, to the PCA's loss.
My experiences with bureaucratic bullsh*t has always involved either the DMV or local city government.
Some petty P-O-S clerk gets a wrong notion in their head and issues a decree, and those with the real authority always rush to their aid.
There might be some 'correcting' done behind closed doors, but you'll be dancing whatever tune was called if you want that permit.
Stonewall and deny. Never admit a mistake to the riffraff!
And that will be the time for others in CR who believe in the rule of law, and what Todd has been doing to vote with their $’s; refuse to race and move to other racing organisations.
Don't see that happening either. Woulda happened already, yes? My $.02
Sucks for Todd, and I feel for him, but he chose his path, and he got his result.
I'm sure he will enjoy racing with the other groups, and good on him for that. Highly doubt that any of those other groups are his real true love though. I think PCA is, and that's why I feel for him, but his decision, his choice, and his result.
I know Todd's not gonna like me saying this, and I say it with all the friendship in the world for him, but PCA could've ended this by letting him race, basically making 1 decision. Todd can do the same right now by doing the same, making 1 decision, just differently.
Will Todds' plight facilitate some changes in PCA Club Racing down the road, maybe, but highly unlikely with the bunch in power still in power. With new blood down the road, maybe.
Not a surprise to me at all. I really don't think it was about PCA flexing power either. They way to approach this was just to ask for trust on CPAP usage, citing SCCA as an example, and adding a checkbox confirming daily CPAP usage by the applicant (which would transfer liability to the applicant while also making the applicant have a greater obligation to use it (knowing they are on the hook for liability)). That will either win, or it won't win, but that is the total extent of the valid argument.
The minute you ask for trust on CPAP usage, but then state repeatedly that CPAP usage isn't very important, it totally trashes the "trust us" argument. Stating the doctor is wrong in his medical assessment, when he was never wrong at all on the medical advice, again trashes the "trust us to use it" argument. The argument against the doctor that was potentially winnable (approached correctly), was he was overreaching by requiring to personally see the data. But the second you say CPAP isn't even an issue, it makes the argument that they should get the data a million times stronger. I fully believe Luigi uses it every day, but the constant comments that it's not a critical issue can't help but give the exact opposite impression. The other arguments, like comparisons to things like missing your plane and not having enough sleep are irrelevant -- those things happen only occasionally and are not systematically preventable by the PCA. Somebody who needs CPAP and does not use it is a risk 100% of the time (not occasionally) and that situation is 100% preventable. Diabetics is a bit similar, but you could solve that the same way as in paragraph one with the applicant committing to and taking legal liability for keeping on top of it.
Except for @Manifold, I don't think the advice/comments Luigi received in this thread helped his case at all. There was a potentially winnable approach, but too much other stuff that gutted the trust argument, and too much complication about corporate structure gave it no chance of passing. As soon as this became very public, there was zero chance of Luigi getting a pass on data, because if there would have any type of serious incident (regardless of cause) there would be people out with torches and pitchforks in court saying PCA knew it should get the data and it didn't.
It's not easy to say the things people don't want to hear, but that would have helped get this resolved rather than how it ended up. I have always, and continue to hope, that Luigi is able to get back on track. The argument in paragraph one might still be winnable approached that narrowly with a specific solution. The compromise to me would be to give them the data to get back on track, and lobby for the simple change to apply next year.
A bit off topic. I carry an unrestricted FAA class 1 medical certificate renewed every 6 month with the accompanying annual EKG protocols . This allows me to fly heavy jets for my employer all over the globe. Do I need to jump through all the PCA hoops to get medically certified to run a Boxster around a track at 80mph or will PCA accept my government issued FAA unrestricted class 1 medical certificate as proof of medical fitness? Just curious if others have crossed this path. Thx.
It's not too late for Luigi to submit his CPAP data, and then PCA will very likely renew his racing license. Unlikely that PCA would make Luigi twist in the wind by asking for more and more data, because PCA wants to end this too.
Luigi may feel sour returning to PCA club races, but he can remind himself that he's there to be with his friends (and win races!), and he can probably avoid talking with any of the PCA leaders who were involved with this.
In the farther future, PCA could go one of three ways:
- No changes
- Buckle down on asking for treatment compliance data, and not just for CPAP
- Scale back the requirements for medical disclosure, or even discontinue having a medical form and just have people attest that they're fit enough to drive on track
I hope they go the third way. I continue to trust that if people don't feel well enough to go on track, they won't go on track. That's what I've observed over the past 12 years.
It's not too late for Luigi to submit his CPAP data, and then PCA will very likely renew his racing license. Unlikely that PCA would make Luigi twist in the wind by asking for more and more data, because PCA wants to end this too.
Luigi may feel sour returning to PCA club races, but he can remind himself that he's there to be with his friends (and win races!), and he can probably avoid talking with any of the PCA leaders who were involved with this.
In the farther future, PCA could go one of three ways:
- No changes
- Buckle down on asking for treatment compliance data, and not just for CPAP
- Scale back the requirements for medical disclosure, or even discontinue having a medical form and just have people attest that they're fit enough to drive on track
I hope they go the third way. I continue to trust that if people don't feel well enough to go on track, they won't go on track. That's what I've observed over the past 12 years.
My experience shows a bit difference. I've had to be involved in the decisions to tell people they are too old and can't react correctly, too tired, etc. I've also seen people trying to manage their glucose levels while driving. There are at least two incidents that I know of this year with people having major cardiac problems on track. Did they know there was an issue? I don't and won't ever know.
I see it differently. Luigi can race with whoever he wants, will keep his local friends, and still have lots of fun in a ton of other groups (he does have a cup car after all....). I see the bigger problem with PCA - the completely dismissed all of his points on the bylaws, medical committee, and it's power. They gave him a complete GFY. Heck, they didn't even follow their own rules of creating a Whistleblower Committee - they used an already formed committee who is part of the inside already. It's sad to see that out of a club that I was the National Enthusiast of the Year and a 26 year member.
I believe Luigi actually did all the other club racers a favor, by making this stand.
Whether they'll admit or not... Club Racing has been noticed that there are limits to how far members will go.
Hopefully they'll be less likely to stray there in the future.
Last edited by Nowanker; 06-26-2024 at 02:25 PM.
Reason: a little clarification....
06-25-2024, 11:53 PM
