dgrobs

I gotta be missing something here.
The car that was leaking oil KNEW he was leaking oil BEFORE he went out for that session? What?
Other drivers in that same session also KNEW that car was leaking oil before the session started? What?
I gotta be missing something here. How was that car leaking fluid allowed on the track to begin with? (And WTF was he thinking, or was he just NOT thinking?)

If this is actually the case, the "stuff happens" explanation goes right out the window, and there is some serious liability here on the part of the car that went out on track knowing he was already leaking fluid.

MileHigh911

Our local Colorado track has moved to LED flags in combination with a monitored camera system and some human manned flag stations.
To take it to the next level, why not have GPS flag beacons that are given to you (like when you wait in line at a restaurant). They are placed In Your car and display the proper flag immediately and precisely for which cars they want.

Gofishracing

I recently had someone come over to me in confidence at an event to tell me about a similar situation-Someone in a Mustang going out again knowing he had a leak. We Black flagged him & asked him to leave. There are some very stupid selfish people out there at times. There should be some additional responsibility for an action like that leading to an incident. I'm not an attorney.

DTMiller

If these facts are true there isn't a thing that can happen to him that would be too much. IF.

But bad facts make bad law and facts like these are how the hobby gets adversely affected.

DavidRS

Agree. A hot pit walk before the track will catch obvious issues. Oil leaks, hoods up, seat belts not on, etc. Up to the organizers to do that. That walk will not catch minor leaks and certainly can't find a failure about to happen. My strategy was to send my assistants to help stage and take a good look at each car they placed on the grid. Any issues were brought to me. Unfortunately neither the pre-even tech nor the hot pit walk caught the oil return tube issue mentioned in my previous post.

I have run with groups that did not have high discipline and just did not continue with them. At one event at Sears Point, the organization was so lax that after one run session I complained to the organizer who basically said buzz off. Packed it up and went home. Ignoring obvious mechanical issues is just as bad as ignoring bad driving

Manifold

Maybe he figured it's a slow leak which won't pose a hazard - good enough to drive that day as planned. People generally don't know what they don't know, which is why we need safeguards like proper tech by qualified people. It's true that "stuff happens" at the track and in life - we can't eliminate luck entirely - but prudent risk management requires that we continue to review our practices, investigate incidents when they happen, and learn and apply the resulting lessons so that we can improve our practices and reduce risk.

It doesn't always have to involve a substantial cost, often it's just a matter of being smarter, being vigilant and diligent, and making the system work better overall. The decades of experience in running DEs have brought DE to a level where effective best practices have been identified and the sport is relatively safe overall, but not all organizations and individuals follow those best practices, and there are no regulations or national standards to compel people to do so.

This incident *appears* to have involved several contributing factors (most incidents do):

- Older car which was leaking oil and dumped the oil on the track
- Warning sign of the leaking oil dismissed by the driver
- Other drivers who knew of the oil leak not reporting the issue to the event organizer (?)
- Questionable tech requirements (?)
- Missing corner worker at a key location (?)
- Corner worker deciding to violate a rule and put himself at risk in order to help others (?)
- The track runoff and safety features could also be factors, but they don't appear to be factors in the corner worker being hit (?)

I'm assuming and hoping that none of the drivers were significantly injured, though I expect that there will be some hefty repair bills given the equipment involved.

LuigiVampa

If I wrecked my car and found out someone went out under those conditions I believe we would exchange more than just words.

I would never want to be the cause of someone's accident, never mind something which was avoidable. I just shake my head at what goes through people's heads.

savyboy

If true, and I certainly believe this report, the RWB driver should have the full weight of criminal and civil law brought upon him. As I'm sure will happen. On a tangential note, everything I've seen about a RWB is that they are a decades old POS with some aesthetic bits welded on by an alcoholic, nicotine addict. Fake it 'til you make it, or in this case fake it until you are a significant contributing factor in a persons death and the destruction of other drivers cars. Pisses me the **** off because the only thing I always ever worry about is getting into oil or coolant by idiots who do not maintain their cars.

Someone explain to me why Thunderhill and LS (and all modern tracks) do not have an LED system? I've run at Spring Mountain and Thermal (years ago) with single point-controlled LEDs instead of flaggers and it is light years more safe and advanced than flag stations.

orthojoe

I agree with Pete.

There have been multiple accounts from separate sources that say it was known that the driver of the RWB 911 was having issues. If it turns out to be true, I would ultimately place the results of this calamity on him. When you show up at a track day, you sign a tech form stating that your car is mechanically sound. We all know there are many people who don't take that form seriously. Track day organizers don't take the form seriously either. Any backyard mickey mouse mechanic that wants to drive a shoddy car on the racetrack can do it. It's scary and it's another case of a few bad apples ruining things for everybody. Tech for cars on a track day used to be a serious and real thing. Not anymore. It's all based on the honor system. There will always be dishonorable people who will disregard the safety of others as well as their own. Yes, certain failures just can't be predicted or avoided. It's the easy ones from pure neglect or shoddy work that should never be missed or allowed. It's added cost and time and a total waste for those of us that actually properly maintain and manage our cars, but the tradeoff has to be done because people always abuse the rules. It's a fact of life.

A while back, I addressed my concerns with HOD about letting a lemons car on track with mostly street cars on a track day. A rinky dink car that is literally falling apart shouldn't be on the same track as expensive track day toys, but my concerns were ignored. The number one reason I bought track insurance was because I don't trust the people I share the track with. I predict that changes to track days are coming as a result of this which are a long time coming. It's a shame that it had to take the life of someone for it to happen.

CarreraFahrer

Well said Joe.

Manifold

People don't even need to be dishonorable to make decisions which lead to excessive risk. Judgments about whether a car is acceptable to put on track are influenced by subconscious biases related to not wanting to waste time and cost invested in missing work or family, hotels, travel, registration, track insurance, etc., plus the desire to drive rather than packing up and going home. We need to account for and mitigate these biases by setting up the system so that there are good checks and balances. Proper independent tech by qualified people is a vital part of that, and there's an obligation to instructors that proper tech be done. This tragedy, and many other serious crashes resulting from dumped fluids, show that we can't afford to be complacent about this.

orthojoe

^agree

atc5

Was the RWB porsche white and LS motor swapped?

djb_rh

Chill out, folks. Yes, a guy died and yes, it was likely avoidable in MANY ways. There's some conflicting information here from those who were on track in that session, and no info about why the worker was even on track. Based on everything we know (which isn't much), he almost certainly should have never been on that track to get hit. Almost certainly. But we don't know.

Calm down and stop with the speculation on who needs to go to jail. I mean if it's true that the guy who *told* the RWB guy he was leaking oil STILL managed to ball his car up because he was behind him, well, that's a bit crazy, too.

But what if the oil "leak" was known about and so tiny as to be insignificant? What if it had nothing to do with the fact that the thing just blew up? What if he missed a shift and blew it up? Is he negligent THEN? What if the corner worker had a medical condition that caused him to hallucinate and head out on a hot track and it just happened at the wrong time? I know, that's getting a little far fetched, but damn, there are a lot of factors at play and certainly more than a few at play that we don't know about (and may never).

No use convicting people here. Just no use.


--Donnie

audipwr1

Agree with guy above we have no facts or right to draw such serious conclusions

Sad to hear - corner workers are so important to our safety to lose one is horrible