fatbillybob

This already ruled a NASA racing incident no blame. SCCA which I race would be same thing and that is just club racing. Turn-in is different for different cars. How many degrees do you have to turn-in to control the corner? How does the car around you get that information?

I have never seen a car at the limit committed to pass have good braking past the braking zone down to the apex with curbing etc...

If he was not doing an evasive maneuver due to your action he was an unaware driver if surprised or failed to properly program you where to pass.

Juha G

This photo is from the 6h VLN race on the Nürburgring two weeks ago. I was driving the E36 325i. There were 170 cars on the track, I belonged to the slowest 10% of those cars. So there were quite a few cars that passed me during my stints.

Does it look like in this photo that I just overtook the GT3 Audi on the outside or was I just leaving space on the inside for the fast approaching car? Clearly there was no overlap but I can assure you had I drove my own line and blocked the R8, I would've been in trouble.

I personally think it matters if the car that is trying to pass you is in the same class (i.e. racing for a position with you) or a faster car in a different class. If former, I would clearly take a defensive line into the corner and fight it through with him/her, if latter, I would just plain leave room for a clean pass.

This "owning the line" is the stupidest thing ever IMHO.

winders

You are preaching to the choir!

If I were in a slower car and faster cars were coming up behind me, I would do exactly what you are doing. Finding a way to let them by in a way that causes neither of us to lose much time.

But, if you read what I wrote, you would see that I already talked about taking the wider line to let the faster car(s) by.

I don't believe in owning the corner either. What I do believe in in not making assumptions as to what the lead car will do if I don't know the driver and have experience with them in similar situations. Clearly I am not driving in a high level amateur series or a pro series so I have to allow for more "variety" in how people in other classes I am passing work with me or against me. Assuming they are going to let me by when I have established no overlap before they turn in is usually a bad assumption.

Juha G

agreed! It goes both ways.

But i still think closing the door completely in the OPs video was s super dumb move. If you wanted to do that, you should've signalled it to the cars behind you by taking a defensive line.

hf1

Each series/club's rules and their enforcement decides how this "variety" of driving gets treated and what behavior gets penalized or encouraged. If a series encourages oblivious mirror-less DE driving and ownership of DE lines and corners then you'll get more drivers doing exactly that. If it instead penalizes it, then you will get much less drivers doing it, and get more awareness, co-existence, leaving racing room. It's very important that the rules and their enforcement signal who needs to learn what.

It's worse when a series encourages both types of driving in its rules (perhaps to make it appear as if it's more than a DE) then mostly encourage oblivious DE driving by their enforcement. IMO, the frequency of contact is mostly determined by the severity of the penalties -- whether there is smth like a 13/13 system or not -- and has nothing to do with the rules themselves. Any consistent set of rules, consistently enforced with a 13/13-like system would yield similar contact statistics.

Trusting multi-year racing buddies to race properly regardless of the rules is a different matter. I don't need theft and murder laws to regulate actions within my family either.

hf1

+1
Spoken like a brother from another mother. And what a great photo!

winders

Absolutely! That's why I said the lead driver contributed to the accident and should get a stern talking to!!

josserman

I race with Dan in Hc-1, in an almost identical S2k, and have had contact with him, pretty similar situation, which we both agreed was ultimately just a racing incident.

I've looked at your video over and over, and bottom line is you were door to door with him and so he's not at fault here (as all the NASA vets have shared).

Sure it was an aggresive pass, absolutely, but from what I understand, he was putting down faster times (albeit it was like his 2nd or 3rd time ever at LRP). If you saw him coming up on you as fast as he did, it probably wouldn't have been wise to close the door on him. (BTW for reference, both Mike and I who race h1 cars can run 58's on r7's at LRP, only point for saying this is for those insinuating in this thread that the s2000 should have realize the porsche was faster)

Eitherway, racing incidents suck, I'm sorry you it happened. Hopefully this doesn't make you walk away from NASA. Luckily no one was hurt, hopefully your car will be back up and running in no time.

josserman

Sorry one other point .... know who you're racing on the track with!

Dan just completed his first PWC race this weekend at COTA, he had high ambitions and is an aggresive racer. I know most of the other aggresive racers out there in both lightening and thunder groups. If I know one of them is behind me, I will drive accordingly, which mean not taking a wide entrance into a turn and leaving them a gap to attempt an aggresive pass...

hf1

I didn't see anyone making this insinuation. Do you have the quote?

fatbillybob

Why not? As a slower aware car you want to program where you want the fast car to pass and you are timing him as much as he is timing you. A courteous racer invites other drivers to where he wants them to go. That is what working together is about when he understands what you are doing. A lead car, slow or not, should lead and control the track. If I want the fast car to to take the apex I hang to the classic late break late apex line programing him to the inside. If I want the faster car to go outside I defend the inside line and he will go under me from the outside as I track out. If he is unsure or sucks, he does not commit. Then he must wait until he can take you on the straight. Even if your programing fails you must commit to the game plan. That makes you predictable. For example, You don't back off forcing him to take the inside line that makes both of you unpredictable.

josserman

I take it back... just re read and everyone is saying the opposite ... sorry, probably made the ***-umption in my quick skim of others posts that the p-guys were saying Frank was driving faster in his p-car then the Honda. Guess I need to get over some car manufacture inferiority complexes or something lol....

josserman

im talking about in a situation where the aggresive driver behind you is not much faster then you or around the same...

fatbillybob

Yeah...if in same class then you have to racecraft the **** out of him.

David993S

I'm glad I never raced with some of you guys.