View Poll Results: Which passing rules are better?
Current
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59
85.51%
Proposed
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10
14.49%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll
PCA passing rules
#286
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Did I say get rid of the rule book? No, I did not. Just use your "common sense" and read and understand how to apply the rules that already exist. Then go out and drive like the guys who aren't hitting other cars.
#287
Perfect Angel
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I already do like most others. The problem is those that don't. There is no baseline for common sense.
I related this conversation elsewhere but I'll give you a brief synopsis if you haven't heard it. I had a face to face conversation at VIR with a driver in my class who flat out told me unequivocally that if he was ahead at turn in then that apex was his and I better get out of the way and if I try to go around the outside he's going to track out no matter who might be in his way.
Racing room was a term he was unfamiliar with.
Common sense is all well and fine until you're on track with that guy. That guy reads the rule one way. That guy has never read the third sentence of our rule. There aren't many of that guy but there are enough.
That particular guy is not in these videos but some other examples where I repeatedly had to back out or get hit. Common sense isn't terribly reliable.
I related this conversation elsewhere but I'll give you a brief synopsis if you haven't heard it. I had a face to face conversation at VIR with a driver in my class who flat out told me unequivocally that if he was ahead at turn in then that apex was his and I better get out of the way and if I try to go around the outside he's going to track out no matter who might be in his way.
Racing room was a term he was unfamiliar with.
Common sense is all well and fine until you're on track with that guy. That guy reads the rule one way. That guy has never read the third sentence of our rule. There aren't many of that guy but there are enough.
That particular guy is not in these videos but some other examples where I repeatedly had to back out or get hit. Common sense isn't terribly reliable.
#288
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Streak,
The definition of common sense, is: Good sense and sound judgment in practical matters. However, there are other meanings...levelheadedness, prudence, discernment, canniness, astuteness, shrewdness, wisdom, insight, perception, perspicacity, practicality, capability, resourcefulness, enterprise, gumption, savvy, smarts, street smarts.
:
:
#290
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And that’s why we have the 13/13. For those that inevitably “don’t get it.”
#291
Perfect Angel
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By then it's too late. Someone's race is over, car damaged or possibly hurt.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sentence in the rules that speaks to overlap and racing rooming in more specific detail so the wrong assumptions aren't made? You know, like every other amateur series currently racing in America today?
There will always be those that don't get it but there's no reason to make "getting it" more difficult than it needs to be.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sentence in the rules that speaks to overlap and racing rooming in more specific detail so the wrong assumptions aren't made? You know, like every other amateur series currently racing in America today?
There will always be those that don't get it but there's no reason to make "getting it" more difficult than it needs to be.
#292
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I didn't make the assumption that everyone had common sense. I'm saying be the driver who uses it.
I checked your videos. When you put yourself in a position to get mugged, you can't complain when guys steal from you.
#293
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[QUOTE=Streak;14957496]By then it's too late. Someone's race is over, car damaged or possibly hurt.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sentence in the rules that speaks to overlap and racing rooming in more specific detail so the wrong assumptions aren't made? You know, like every other amateur series currently racing in America today?
There will always be those that don't get it but there's no reason to make "getting it" more difficult than it needs to be.[/QUOTE
If graduates of the long DE and PCA training process don't get it, then the process does need fixing. However, based on the pole results, most guys DO get it and if I were to look for them on the track, I'll bet I'd find them up front.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sentence in the rules that speaks to overlap and racing rooming in more specific detail so the wrong assumptions aren't made? You know, like every other amateur series currently racing in America today?
There will always be those that don't get it but there's no reason to make "getting it" more difficult than it needs to be.[/QUOTE
If graduates of the long DE and PCA training process don't get it, then the process does need fixing. However, based on the pole results, most guys DO get it and if I were to look for them on the track, I'll bet I'd find them up front.
#294
Perfect Angel
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[QUOTE=9114609048;14957654]
Agreed. 100% There are those that need to be told exactly what they can and can't do. That's all I'm saying.
By then it's too late. Someone's race is over, car damaged or possibly hurt.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sentence in the rules that speaks to overlap and racing rooming in more specific detail so the wrong assumptions aren't made? You know, like every other amateur series currently racing in America today?
There will always be those that don't get it but there's no reason to make "getting it" more difficult than it needs to be.[/QUOTE
If graduates of the long DE and PCA training process don't get it, then the process does need fixing. However, based on the pole results, most guys DO get it and if I were to look for them on the track, I'll bet I'd find them up front.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a sentence in the rules that speaks to overlap and racing rooming in more specific detail so the wrong assumptions aren't made? You know, like every other amateur series currently racing in America today?
There will always be those that don't get it but there's no reason to make "getting it" more difficult than it needs to be.[/QUOTE
If graduates of the long DE and PCA training process don't get it, then the process does need fixing. However, based on the pole results, most guys DO get it and if I were to look for them on the track, I'll bet I'd find them up front.
Agreed. 100% There are those that need to be told exactly what they can and can't do. That's all I'm saying.
#295
Perfect Angel
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I roll my eyes at you. Our rule sets up the mugging. That's the problem. Those are examples of a guy weaponizing the first sentence of our passing rule. If I hadn't backed out I'd have been hit. I had no reason to back out. I had clearly established position on him and he should have left room. And then the squeeze. Henderson even speaks to that very scenario (different race) in the current CR News. The guy on the outside (the chopper) had a whole bunch of room to the out side while I have none to the inside because an out of class car decided not to follow a race for position in class thru the corner. He didn't really need to be there. He could have easily taken us both coming out of T2. The guy on the outside dove for the apex. I backed out. Guy on the outside made contact with the out of class car. If you watch closely you'll see that the guy on the outside in the squeeze play isn't ahead at turn in. And note the line he takes when I didn't get along side him, before turn in he dives to take the inside line. Block much?
Each example is one where the guy on the outside should absolutely have left racing room. No question. Full stop. If you disagree then you are making my point about the ambiguity of the rule.
Every other amateur series addresses this in their rules. The bigger we get, and we are big, the more likely we have have more problems with rules interpretation.
And this isn't DE. I'm racing a guy in class for position. Am I supposed to wait for a point by?
#298
Perfect Angel
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Everything I want to say would put this thread on OT.
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#299
I'm in....
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#300
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I already do like most others. The problem is those that don't. There is no baseline for common sense.
I related this conversation elsewhere but I'll give you a brief synopsis if you haven't heard it. I had a face to face conversation at VIR with a driver in my class who flat out told me unequivocally that if he was ahead at turn in then that apex was his and I better get out of the way and if I try to go around the outside he's going to track out no matter who might be in his way.
Racing room was a term he was unfamiliar with.
Common sense is all well and fine until you're on track with that guy. That guy reads the rule one way. That guy has never read the third sentence of our rule. There aren't many of that guy but there are enough.
That particular guy is not in these videos but some other examples where I repeatedly had to back out or get hit. Common sense isn't terribly reliable.
http://www.vimeo.com/231011781
http://www.vimeo.com/231368769
I related this conversation elsewhere but I'll give you a brief synopsis if you haven't heard it. I had a face to face conversation at VIR with a driver in my class who flat out told me unequivocally that if he was ahead at turn in then that apex was his and I better get out of the way and if I try to go around the outside he's going to track out no matter who might be in his way.
Racing room was a term he was unfamiliar with.
Common sense is all well and fine until you're on track with that guy. That guy reads the rule one way. That guy has never read the third sentence of our rule. There aren't many of that guy but there are enough.
That particular guy is not in these videos but some other examples where I repeatedly had to back out or get hit. Common sense isn't terribly reliable.
http://www.vimeo.com/231011781
http://www.vimeo.com/231368769
In the second video, he's being aggressive and compromising his line.. I don't know if you were side by side if he'd turn in on you if you control the inside and delay your turn in to control his turn in.