pole position

I guess we have different definitions of reckless.

After spinning out previously he convinced the Lambo driver to do some hotlaps with him to show the superiority of the CGT...................he was wayyyyyyyyyy over his head driving the car close to the limit and completely unqualified to deal with sudden changes on the track at speed, many more skilled cooler heads would have not panicked when the F car entered the track.

"A man got to know his limitations" applies to both crashes.

tcsracing1

all this and yet porsche get sued…..

tcsracing1

missed the apex perhaps?

mousecatcher

it's the USA. everyone gets sued. getting sued is literally meaningless.

roberga

shotgun approach used everyday- easy money. Most companies will settle just to get rid of the PITA. Would not be surprised if the F-ing lawyers did not sue Sunoco for if the CGT did not have gas in the tank it would not have been moving so they have partial liability.

elooleelo

I was just there on Tuesday afternoon and took a video and several close-up pictures of the tire marks. I will post them this weekend.

An interesting fact that I learned (to my knowledge not mentioned in the news), was that a part from the car flew into the window of the building - shattering a large panel. I asked two guys that worked there what the part was and they said some sort of motor mount. I find that hard to believe but they were certain it occurred at time of crash.

Lastly, I wanted to add that the curb is fairly high at point of impact. According to the tire marks the car hit curb at angle. It was sliding when it hit. It also hit at the corner of the curb - the rear hit on the entrance-way side and the fronts hit on the street side. I'd be curious to hear what you think of the pictures. I'll get those posted tonight.

kosmo

Google "Porsche USA"
Walker is the 2nd entry from some scum bucket site called the Improper. What a joke.

DarksideGTI

That would mean the car hit the pole/tree on Walkers side, yet it was the drivers side that was split open? I was thinking it hit the pole and then was spun around and came to rest against the tree on the passenger side.

SeanR

That's the only thing i could envision also.

elooleelo

That was the way I intepreted the marks. I am not qualified to say with certainty but that is the way it looked to me. I am sure the marks were from the CGT since the police clearly annotated them with spray can dots. I look forward to your comments when I get the photos online.

elooleelo

Approach


Close-up of Approach


Tire Marks


Rear Tire?


Broken Window


As I walked around these questions came to mind.
1) Does it look like the car was sliding at an angle?
2) Do you think the wider mark on right is definitely from rear tires - meaning the passenger side impacted first?
3) What caused the left two tread mark lines to converge? Because rear impacted first then snapped the front of car clockwise?
4) How much of impact would have been absorbed by curb before it even hit the light post?
5) Was the car braking or accelerating? I would think braking since it looks like the left lines are from front tires.
6) Any indication of a full spin?

As I drove around the curve, I thought what my maximum speed could have been. It is hard for me to imagine taking this curve faster than 70-80 mph. They could have accelerated out of it but not much before the skid marks began. These were the only tire marks apparently related to this accident. No evidence of fish tailing.

The only thing I could think of was that he took the end of the curve on the on-coming traffic lane and crossed the center to get back into his lane under acceleration. Perhaps those road bumps did cause the rear to slide out. They looked like this type of hard rounded ceramic reflector.

The car would have had a slip angle when he braked hard. Notice the close-up of the "Rear Tire?" photo. More rubber on the rears might have slowed the rear faster pulling the front back around (causing the left two lines to converge??). Rears hit curb and this whipped the front clockwise to the curb. Then up and over to hit the pole. He would have then broadsided on passenger side vicinity rear pillar causing the monocoque to burst open on the driver side.

I was terribly saddened by the tragedy and like all of us very frustrated with the question of how this could have happened. Again I have zero credentials, so this hypothesis may be complete rubbish. Mainly posting this to get your point of view. I have been riveted to this thread since it began. Many thanks to all of you who have shared your expertise and experience.

RIP Paul and Roger.

Cuda911

Interesting photos... gives a lot to ponder...

pole position

it looks like he was in trouble exiting that fast right hander, he either lifted/over corrected or both and was simply a passenger with no run off zone after that. I am certain they were doing triple digit speeds just leaving the event and the car, especially the tires, were not up to operating temp. By the looks of it he went thru there before at lesser speed and became overconfident upping the stakes this time around.

IMO, classic driver error.

Maltese Falcon

Michael, thank you for taking the time and doing this detective work.
I think that after all of the cctvs (now under the microscope of law enforcement) are made public, we can have more of an idea as well.
Marty

Stephen Pitts

Yeah, totally agreed. These marks are a bit strange. I don't understand how the car went sideways for so long. It usually spins when you lose the rear end (in least in my limited experience). The tracks are remarkably parallel as they converge. The stopping power of the car is huge. And, for sure, it's really sad how they encountered the curb end the poles. I think a lot of elements her contributed to this tragedy (I'm not trying to apportion blame, only casualty). The dots I do think were potentially very ruinous (or at least tricky) as well... The 800lb gorilla here is the speed of course? The CGT can be SO deceptive in this regard. Again, not trying to apportion any blame for the crash. Stuff does just happen.