GT350
01-06-2018, 01:15 PM
#2986
Always hard to sell yesterday’s car during the craze is for the latest and greatest.
GT350s better performing.?Of course. Leaps and bounds? Nope. Main delta are the tires. Boss is a great track car. Epic for it’s time. Neither are “race” cars stock. Boss 302s made for great race cars winning championships and the 302 was a great race engine. Point in fact the Boss drive train replaced the fpc in the current Mustang GT4. GT350RC while fast did not make for a great race car and the 5.2 fpc not a good race engine. Ask Ford. It’s a good de track car. Yes.
Only 1500 LSs ever made. Best of the S197 with real Boss heritage and parallel history. GT350 has 0 Shelby dna or connection except licensing rights.
I like the GT350 but the Boss LS is what collectors will be looking for. Boss LS stock rising. Time to buy. GT350 stock dropping. R the exception in future, maybe.
GT350s better performing.?Of course. Leaps and bounds? Nope. Main delta are the tires. Boss is a great track car. Epic for it’s time. Neither are “race” cars stock. Boss 302s made for great race cars winning championships and the 302 was a great race engine. Point in fact the Boss drive train replaced the fpc in the current Mustang GT4. GT350RC while fast did not make for a great race car and the 5.2 fpc not a good race engine. Ask Ford. It’s a good de track car. Yes.
Only 1500 LSs ever made. Best of the S197 with real Boss heritage and parallel history. GT350 has 0 Shelby dna or connection except licensing rights.
I like the GT350 but the Boss LS is what collectors will be looking for. Boss LS stock rising. Time to buy. GT350 stock dropping. R the exception in future, maybe.
Furthermore I don't think any of these cars will have collectable value within the next 15-20 years. What the old muscle car era had in its favor as far as collectability and value is concerned was the gas crisis. It took the big three another decade + to reach the performance of those old cars from 67-71 or so.
01-06-2018, 01:20 PM
#2987
Instructor
Having had a regular B302, a LS and a GT350 now, yes the performance gap between these cars is very wide. The B302 does not come close to the level of the 991.1 GT3, the GT350 does. The main delta is not so much the tires (although it definitely helps) it's the IRS, the additional 82 hp, 8250 redline, magneride suspension, the brakes on the GT350 are so much better compared to the meager stoppers on the B302, and the Tremec 3160 in the GT350 puts the crap Chinese MT82 gearbox in the Boss 302 to shame. Grabbing 3rd under power with any consistency is futile in that transmission and it's a glaring example of the Boss 302's inferiority, along with the stick axle. The B302 has a touch more torque down low than the GT350, but other than that, there is nothing better in a Boss 302 compared to a GT350.
Furthermore I don't think any of these cars will have collectable value within the next 15-20 years. What the old muscle car era had in its favor as far as collectability and value is concerned was the gas crisis. It took the big three another decade + to reach the performance of those old cars from 67-71 or so.
Furthermore I don't think any of these cars will have collectable value within the next 15-20 years. What the old muscle car era had in its favor as far as collectability and value is concerned was the gas crisis. It took the big three another decade + to reach the performance of those old cars from 67-71 or so.
01-06-2018, 04:05 PM
#2988
^^Agreed. 
I looked at the BOSS 302 with high interest, but it took the GT350 to actually make me buy something other than a Porsche. I don't buy these cars for collectability, they're strictly for driving enjoyment.
I looked at the BOSS 302 with high interest, but it took the GT350 to actually make me buy something other than a Porsche. I don't buy these cars for collectability, they're strictly for driving enjoyment.
01-06-2018, 05:49 PM
#2989
Nordschleife Master
Let's agree to disagree. All signs indicate the LS will be sought after in years to come.
Further, Fast Laps puts the GT350 as marginally faster than the Boss. I don't dislike the GT350. I like it. But lets not make believe it is leaps and bounds faster. It's not. Look at the Laguna Seca and Sachsenring times. Put real meats on the Boss and delta trimmed alot.
Is the GT350 more advanced with better brakes, better suspension....yes. Of course. But the Boss is still formidable and a great track weopon especially in the right hands even today.
Andrew Acquilente of Pheonix Performance just outran serious more up to date iron in the Boss. Cars just as fast if not faster than a GT350.
http://www.phoenixperformance.net/scca-first-ever_indy_runoffs_win_goes_to_andrew_aquilante_in_touring_1.html
Further, Fast Laps puts the GT350 as marginally faster than the Boss. I don't dislike the GT350. I like it. But lets not make believe it is leaps and bounds faster. It's not. Look at the Laguna Seca and Sachsenring times. Put real meats on the Boss and delta trimmed alot.
Is the GT350 more advanced with better brakes, better suspension....yes. Of course. But the Boss is still formidable and a great track weopon especially in the right hands even today.
Andrew Acquilente of Pheonix Performance just outran serious more up to date iron in the Boss. Cars just as fast if not faster than a GT350.
http://www.phoenixperformance.net/scca-first-ever_indy_runoffs_win_goes_to_andrew_aquilante_in_touring_1.html
01-06-2018, 08:50 PM
#2990
01-07-2018, 12:32 AM
#2991
Let's agree to disagree. All signs indicate the LS will be sought after in years to come.
Further, Fast Laps puts the GT350 as marginally faster than the Boss. I don't dislike the GT350. I like it. But lets not make believe it is leaps and bounds faster. It's not. Look at the Laguna Seca and Sachsenring times. Put real meats on the Boss and delta trimmed alot.
Is the GT350 more advanced with better brakes, better suspension....yes. Of course. But the Boss is still formidable and a great track weopon especially in the right hands even today.
Andrew Acquilente of Pheonix Performance just outran serious more up to date iron in the Boss. Cars just as fast if not faster than a GT350.
http://www.phoenixperformance.net/scca-first-ever_indy_runoffs_win_goes_to_andrew_aquilante_in_touring_1.html
Further, Fast Laps puts the GT350 as marginally faster than the Boss. I don't dislike the GT350. I like it. But lets not make believe it is leaps and bounds faster. It's not. Look at the Laguna Seca and Sachsenring times. Put real meats on the Boss and delta trimmed alot.
Is the GT350 more advanced with better brakes, better suspension....yes. Of course. But the Boss is still formidable and a great track weopon especially in the right hands even today.
Andrew Acquilente of Pheonix Performance just outran serious more up to date iron in the Boss. Cars just as fast if not faster than a GT350.
http://www.phoenixperformance.net/scca-first-ever_indy_runoffs_win_goes_to_andrew_aquilante_in_touring_1.html
PS just looked at auto trader. The same two black B302 LS ads are still there when I had my ad up there over two years ago. Those guys will never get their asking prices. They're sniffing glue. Owners are a bit stuck with them as there are so many better alternatives to choose from these days. Why would anyone get an old stick axled LS w/ no warranty for $35K when you can get a better performing brand spanking new '18 GT w/ PP for likely less that $40K OTD?
01-07-2018, 02:34 AM
#2992
Nordschleife Master
There are no signs that indicate that any '12-'13 Boss 302 will be 'sought after'. It certainly wasn't sought after when it took me over 6 months to sell a pristine example in my LS. The Boss 302 has one thing going for it which is an engine with forged internals. Other than that it's a regular Mustang with average brakes and a crappy gearbox. A GT both with and without the PP is a better performing car in every way, and the GT350 is better than that car. The Boss 302 is an older car now. There's nothing wrong with that. People can still have fun with it, get a Watts link as a workaround for its stick axle, MGW shifter to at least try and grab 3rd gear more consistently etc. But the fact remains that many cars have come out since Ford moved on from the Boss 302 that make it look rather primitive in 2018.
PS just looked at auto trader. The same two black B302 LS ads are still there when I had my ad up there over two years ago. Those guys will never get their asking prices. They're sniffing glue. Owners are a bit stuck with them as there are so many better alternatives to choose from these days. Why would anyone get an old stick axled LS w/ no warranty for $35K when you can get a better performing brand spanking new '18 GT w/ PP for likely less that $40K OTD?
PS just looked at auto trader. The same two black B302 LS ads are still there when I had my ad up there over two years ago. Those guys will never get their asking prices. They're sniffing glue. Owners are a bit stuck with them as there are so many better alternatives to choose from these days. Why would anyone get an old stick axled LS w/ no warranty for $35K when you can get a better performing brand spanking new '18 GT w/ PP for likely less that $40K OTD?
$35k will by you a high mileage LS with track time on it. Want a low mile pristine example now? $50k range.
$35k will get you a nice non LS.
Mustangs have been stick axle since ‘64.5 and cpc. The Boss is the best of the last stick axle gen. It’s a great track performer, race series champion and a true Boss 302 from parallel history to true 100% Ford dna. Parnelli Jones was even involved in the testing of the Boss and loved it. It’s got tremendous character and presence. While nice low mileage factory stock examples of standard Boss 302 s will end up being desirable in years to come as many of those won’t exist even less similar examples of LS will exist. Remember only 1500 LS were ever made. Want one in Silver and red? Only 132 were made.
Im not saying it’s the next Stuz Bearcat but it’s value will go up and prices of low mileage pristine LS have gone up. I paid $46k for mine 2 years ago with 1100 miles on it. It’s #46. Ford matched the vin with the LS # on the first 50 LSs produced. Only has 1700 miles now. Wouldn’t let it go for less than $50k if I was selling.
Many auto journals picked the LS as a future classic. Not that that’s the be all and end all but I think the are right.
Some cars sit for a long time without selling. You are right. The Boss is primitive compared to the new Mustang hardware. I see it more accurately as “old school” now. Guys still want the latest and greatest so selling the Boss is not easy now if you want msrp for a pristine example. It has to be someone that appreciates the car and is not chasing the latest greatest. As years go by and they do, fast too ..the Boss will start being seen in the light as a classic and not as a competitor of the latest hardware. It will become more valuable and sought after.
Many many leaps and bounds (no exaggeration) more GT350s sitting for sale for a long time. Market has definitely cooled on the GT350 with gobs more produced. I heard Ford even halted production for a while due to poor sales. I can buy an R for $67k now with less than 2000 miles. Tempted actually. Last year that car commanded $100k. Meteoric drop.
I do think the R values will go up in years to come though for a number of reasons.
Great indicators for future sought after cars?. Great history behind the model. Winning competitive history. Made in limited numbers. Watershed model (Boss was the first production Mustang with adjustable dampers, side exhaust, 302 engine with internals, Recaro race seats, track key, and other model specific upgrades and first Mustang to really compete with and best foreign competition such as the BMW M3 and even the Audi R8.. epic for its day) Loved by the automotive press. Loved by the public.
The Boss LS checks off all those boxes.
Your upside buying a nice LS for $45k is better than buying a TP GT350 at $55k.
Last edited by Waxer; 01-07-2018 at 03:08 AM.
01-07-2018, 03:51 AM
#2993
Clearly you love your Boss 302. Good for you...
01-07-2018, 09:41 AM
#2994
Nordschleife Master
You noticed Trust me I’m not alone. i lke the GT350 too. Very Cool car and great bang for the buck. Thinking about picking up an R now that you can by low mileage ones for msrp.
Not it trying to be a wet blanket on the GT350 but just cutting through some over statements. Just like everything else it will be the red headed step child once the new GT500 hits. Then it’s time to buy an R!
01-07-2018, 12:39 PM
#2995
You noticed
Trust me I’m not alone.i lke the GT350 too. Very Cool car and great bang for the buck. Thinking about picking up an R now that you can by low mileage ones for msrp.
Not it trying to be a wet blanket on the GT350 but just cutting through some over statements. Just like everything else it will be the red headed step child once the new GT500 hits. Then it’s time to buy an R!
01-07-2018, 12:58 PM
#2996
I own an M4 GTS, and have owned a Z28 and GT3/4's as well. Have not driven a GT350R though they seem nice. The M4 is a smoking bargain right now. Original MSRP was $134 and there are several for sale UNDER 100k. There are just over 300 in the US and the car comes stock with triple adjustable shocks, a roll bar, carbon ceramic brakes, a gorgeous handmade carbon fiber hood, full front and rear adjustable aero, and of course the water injected engine and OLED taillights. The thing is a moving work of art and the thrust and balance is impressive. There is a lull right now due to supply and the weather but mark my words, this will be a great car to own in a few years. It is not a GT3 replacement as it is based off of a sedan but it is a magnificent beast of a car for an absolute steal right now. Would definitely consider as an alternative if you are looking at 'Stangs.
01-07-2018, 01:46 PM
#2997
Nordschleife Master
Gauging by the same ads for those black cars around $50K, still online since Jan '16 it appears that there isn't any interest at all. An LS will not sell for anything remotely close to $50K. I sold my LS for $39K with 2,800 miles on it. I dont know if it would sell for even $35K now. Wish you were in the market back then. As you alluded to, finding a buyer is like finding a needle in a haystack. If the market is soft for the GT350, at least there is a market.
GT350s are also sitting for quite some time now. An R adverstised on this site didn't sell for $67K. Beauty too. Sat and sat. A track pack GT350 has been sitting at a local dealer since last April. Looks cold and lonely sitting in the lot now. Gobs of them for sale.
It will take a few years when the Boss is not viewed as performance competition for the new stuff and begins to be viewed more as a blast from the past old school to start to sell more quickly for higher numbers. The Boss has loads of character and still garners thumbs up and people love it at cruise nights. The track key lopy idle is very cool.
Perfect stable mate to my Boss 302 TA2/Tran Am car.
01-07-2018, 04:26 PM
#2998
Rennlist Member
Wasn't that the Canadian one that was listed at $67k? I hear you on the GT500 but not sure if the GT500 and 350R are directed replacements. Maybe some dealers will loosen up on the R at that point.
01-07-2018, 06:20 PM
#2999
Nordschleife Master
All info I am getting is that the new GT500 will a multi talented performer. Not just straight line anymore.
01-08-2018, 08:38 AM
#3000
From the owners who have weighed their cars, almost all '16 Base & Track Pack GT350's have been in the 37XX lbs range, full tank or less. The R's have been mid to upper 36XX lbs, but some right around 3700 lbs even. The '17s/'18s are all Track Packs now, but those with full electronics and leather seats are probably a little heavier, like C&D's car.
Just for clarification, between 2015/16 & 2017/18, there is only a single "option" overlap within the GT350 non-R family, that being '15/'16 Track Pack (1701 made) = '17/'18 Base Model (516 made in'17, '18 TBD). Of course, the '15/16's are superior as they have the nicer door sill plaque, but that's my opinion...
Last edited by Geza; 01-08-2018 at 09:20 AM.