Waxer

Ford 5.2 FPC was a maintenance nightmare in WEC/Continnental. While they kept it going it was very competitive and fast but "great racing" it is not. Great raciing engines require more then just the ability to go fast for an hour or more.

The are getting the same performance out of the 5.2 Aluminator which is a Boss 302 taken to 5.2. The Boss 302 was a "great racing" engine being competitive, reliable and maintenance efficient. Boss 302 won multiple championships reliably and relatively maintenance free. Also, true Boss heritage from every angle.

I'm not a hater eventhough I could pick the GT350 apart on multiple levels but no need. Nevertheless, I like the GT350 and it is great track car with amazing performance and a good DD. Ford brought alot of value to the table with the car. More than that...no.

In mho a pristine Boss LS is the one to own going into the future. Alsoi, I have to say that from my observation my lone LS turns more heads at cruise nights then the plethora of GT350 there. Just say'n.

jeff33702

Oh, you own an LS? Now, I understand.

Actually, as I understand it, the 5.2 Aluminator is not a Boss 302, at all - except for the intake, crankshaft and different firing order cams, it's a GT350 engine. I guess you could argue that the GT350 engine was an evolution of the Boss motor (FPC pros vs cons debatable) but it has less (almost no) parts shared with the Boss...unless you count timing components.

I can agree though, I loved the Boss 302 engine just fine. I built one from scratch and I couldn't have been happier.

Waxer

You ascribe a motive that doesn't exist for my comments. It's not because I own a Boss 302 that I say what I say. I could easily afford to own a GT350/R if I wanted one. I don't. There is a list of reasons why but thry are my reasons and there is no reason to elaborate unless you want me to. Looked the GT350. Drove them on the street and track. My neighbor has one. Its nice but the car never did much for me but again I do like it as a performance Mustang and recognize its a great performer for a great value.

I have owned a Boss 302 LS (#46) for serveral years now because I am a Boss 302 fan and love the history of the car and its direct and real parallel link to that storied history. Even had Parnelli Jones sign my car. Next Budd Moore and then maybe I can get Dan Gurney's signature. Prior to my LS I owned a standard Boss 302 for track work than moved up to a real race car...a Boss 302TA3/AIX.



Also, you are mistaken. The Mustang GT4 runs a Boss 302 drive train punched to a 5.2 with GT350 5.2 heads.

As fast as the GT350/R and Boss 302 are on the track or even my Boss 302 TA3 which is without question noticably faster than a GT350/R is ...none of them would know where my '16 GT3RS had gone on a track.

spg993tt

ive owned and raced a bunch of boxstesr, caymans, cups, GT3Rs. and Camaros, mustangs, and I own a gt350R. its an incredible machine, one of the best values, best motor I've ever enjoyed other than the GT3R. the handling is terrific not as precise as a cup or cayman but really solid. and its half the price of many other cars in same performance bracket.
when I would drive a cup or gt3R it was a battle, a war. you got out and where like whew, thrilled, excited but edgy, . the Camaros and mustangs are far more comfortable, compliant, just smiles ear to ear.
when you race a cayman, its strung out to within a smidge of its total capability. most of the time, they have to detune and turn down the performance of mustangs and Camaros to have performance equality.
anyway, Porsche makes incredible cars. but so does ford. they are maybe as much of a racing company if not more so than Porsche. and they build cars more for the masses, more affordable. which is better is personal. but If I could own just one car to have fun on the road and on track, it would be that gt350R. the noise just makes you happy.

jeff33702

Except, you referred to the Aluminator 5.2, as did I - and that engine is more GT350 technology than it is Boss...but like I said they are just a generation apart. Maybe we're talking about two different things?


To say you would pick a GT350 apart but then go on fluffing the LS confused me a bit. If you could pick apart a GT350, I'd suggest anyone could do the same, to a higher degree, to an LS.


BTW, you do have a Silver LS, which is the way I would have done it...

Waxer

The GT350 are great performers at the track. They are fast! They are easy to drive fast too. Very comfortable cockpit. No doubt. Great performance for the money. No argument on that one!.

My Boss 302TA3 is faster but its a brute, heavy handed, loud, intense, instant response from steering to throttle, harsh in every respect from the anchor heavy race clutch to suspension ride and best of all a sauna for weight reduction and as you said just like with a Cup it wears you out and is a work out. Even climbing in over cage side bars, strapping in and then climbing out and getting unstrapped from 5 point and unplugged from hans, to radio, to helment cooling is a process You definitely break a sweat. Anyone who has ever driven a real race car knows exactly what I talking about.

Two different worlds.

Waxer

Yes. See pic above. I have the Ingot Silver with Red LS #46. I like the black and red LS better but felt the Ingot was special in light of the fact there are very very few of them. I believe the number is around 150 built. The Ingot is actually very pretty in the sun with the metallic in it. It looks better in person than pictures.

The new 5.2 head and valve train is a step ahead which is now used on the former Boss 302 for the Mustang GT4. However, most people don't realize the Boss 302 was a dedicated engine that is very different than the standard 5.0 of that generation and built on a totally different assembly plant/line. Most don't even know you can't get a Boss 302 motor any longer. Out of production. Makes me a little concern about my TA3. Don't push it that hard. Also I changed the standard Boss 302 forged rods to Oliver forged rods.

There are criticisms I have for the Boss 302. It's not perfect. It weighs too much, it doesn't have fully adjustable suspension, although the Tokico's work amazingly well for what they are and the MT82 manual should have been dumped for a Tremec. My MT82 surprisingly works remarkable well in the LS. My previous Boss wasn't as good. My Boss TA3 has a Tremec. I also think the Boss was under tired. Should have run 275s up front and 305s in the rear.

GT350 has a bigger weight issue but its suspension is a step above and has more power. GT350 has better brakes. The Boss brakes are very good for the weight of the car and as of '12 they were comparatively great vis a vis the competition in class. Both suffer from standard Ford fare as far as interior.

My primary beef with the GT350 is it's faux link to Shelby with no parallel to history. 0. Doesn't make it a bad car but its one of my beefs.

The '12/'13 Boss 302 is a real Ford Boss 302 with a real parallel to the original in every respect and link to history and more limited build with only a two year run and a very limited run of the LS with only 1500 produced (150 in Silver and Red and the first 50 out of the plant have their LS# match the last digits in the Vin.

jeff33702

Probably a conversation for a different thread. I also don't put any stock on the current line having the "Shelby" name....but I also think that the latest Boss cars are separated from the originals by enough time and technology that it minimalizes or erases any real historical significance. I owned an 03 Mach 1 and felt the same way. That was then and everything else that came later (so many years later) is just a new car riding their coat tails.

Para82

Absolutely agree. I might be the only person on this forum who has owned both a Boss 302 Laguna Seca (#189) and the new Shelby GT350. I put over 22 track events on the Boss and 26,000 hard miles. The Boss 302 is a great car for the money but it's no GT350, the new Shelby is in another league.

Waxer

I see your point, however, there are distinct differences. The '03 Mach 1 was badge/sticker job. 0 parallels to the orignal Mach 1's. Your right no parallel to the original or real link except both made by ford.

Boss 302 different. Much different. A dedicated performance car developed separate and apart with dedicated performance parts and engine developed for the car not shared with any other Ford product with same displacement. Many parallels to '69 and '70. Parnelli was even involved in testing the car.

Para82

Most people in this country can barely write a check for $600 dollars so we won't be seeing many young people driving a GT350 anytime soon. Heck i'm lucky at 35 to be driving one of the greatest American sports cars to come out of Detroit in the last 25 years. Very lucky.

Waxer

Another league, no. That's a litte overstatement my friend imho. Is it noticably better as far as track performance over a stock 302? .. yes and an improvement and step ahead no doubt. It better be its 2 years newer than the last Boss. Another league would be a Mac 675LT, GT3RS, 488 etc... Most of the delta however boils down to tires. Pirelli 255/275s can't run with 305 Trofeos. Take that delta away and that little Boss is going to surprise you.

I easily overtake GT350s in my Boss TA3 and put them in my rear view. Not a problem and I'm runnng Conti 275 endurance slicks.

What do you think is the biggest delta between a GT350TP and a GT350R?

Tires.

911therapy

Thankfully, I didn't buy the gt350r for the engine's historical racing heritage or future racing prowess. It checks a whole lot of boxes for me and gives me more pleasure driving than the turbo s and gts (so far). I considered the gt3. But the engine issues for the price of the car seemed like a gamble and a potential time bomb. Now, I haven't seen or read any significant number of issues occurring on the track with the voodoo in the gt350. Not saying they won't creep up at some point but with the price of this car, it's less of a gamble than the gt3. I plan to track the gt350r a few times a year. As waxer said, and there is no disputing, the gt3rs will beat the gt350r hands down around a track. But it should. It costs upwards of 2.5 times that if the gt350r. For the price, the gt350r can't be beat in my opinion.

I do plan to lighten the weight of the car as much as possible (carbon fiber every where posssible, carbon ceramic breaks etc) as I agree with posters above that weight is the biggest downside to this car.

hard to beat the pleasure of a gt3 (and rs I'm sure but have never driven one) around a track. But for less than half the money and a manual, the gt350r is the one for me. For now. Ha.

jeff33702

The block in the GT4 is also GT350. Cams and crank are the main changes.

For your boss - I wonder if you can still buy the block and rotating assembly? When I did it, the price was reasonable.
http://93coupe.com/drivetrain/

ipse dixit

The insecurity is strong in this thread.