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I don't want to burst anyones bubble in older posts in this thread but strut bars with pivoting ends are USELESS. They do nothing but give you a false sense of rigidity. Most reputable factory strut bars are have fixed ends. Case in point in the photo above from the GT3 cup car.
Strut towers generally spread under cornering load. That puts them tension, so the rotating joints are not an issue. If they were working in compression, it would of course be a different story.
I agree, they should do a recall. Some sort of bonded cup fix probably makes more sense than a whole new part. For the latter, assume they would recall all GT cars (about 20k of them). Repair process for one strut tower is about 15-20k. You'd be doing the same disassembly and reassembly process but on both sides. A bonded cup repair is probably a tenth the cost. Design and production of repair part is probably relatively negligible.
Originally Posted by Maxi_z
but many sites list it as not available and replaced with another part number (that you then can t find availabe)
Of course it doesn t mean anything but it could be possible that unofficially porsche revised something about the part itself or that maybe they don t list it anymore as a spare part
Someone did try to order one for independent testing. As I recall it is a 'protected' part, as in you need to be a Porsche-approved bodyshop with a VIN and documented damage in order to order one.
Maybe they did update the part though?
Last edited by FrenchToast; 06-15-2019 at 01:33 AM.
I asked two different racing teams today. One GT4 team and one Carrera Cup team. The GT4 team admitted that they had encountered strut tower failures but that was in extreme circumstances. I didn’t get a chance to make further questions.
The Carrera Cup team had a bit more time with me. They have run two GT3 Cup cars for five years and only had two failures, both was in accidents where they had to repair a lot more than just the towers. Their chief mechanic knew about these threads on Rennlist, his responce was that it was just hysteria.
My thoughts, judging from these two discussions, is that, either the known cases has a lot more to be known about them, or that the issues are caused by manufacturing defects.
By the way. I’m assuming that the strut tower bracing on the cup cars doesn’t affect this issue just as others in this thread above me.
I asked two different racing teams today. One GT4 team and one Carrera Cup team. The GT4 team admitted that they had encountered strut tower failures but that was in extreme circumstances. I didn’t get a chance to make further questions.
The Carrera Cup team had a bit more time with me. They have run two GT3 Cup cars for five years and only had two failures, both was in accidents where they had to repair a lot more than just the towers. Their chief mechanic knew about these threads on Rennlist, his responce was that it was just hysteria.
My thoughts, judging from these two discussions, is that, either the known cases has a lot more to be known about them, or that the issues are caused by manufacturing defects.
By the way. I’m assuming that the strut tower bracing on the cup cars doesn’t affect this issue just as others in this thread above me.
A friend sent me this notice from PCA Club Racing -
Looks like PCA is well aware of the issue.
Update on my GT4 repairs - Friday, I received a call from the first Porsche authorized auto body repair shop who provided a preliminary repair quote (Amato's in San Diego). They are refusing to do the work because they do not want to take on the liability in case it fails again. The second authorized repair shop I contacted has experience in completing this repair on several cars but has heard of more than 30 failures. I brought this to PCNA's attention and they said their position would not change in regard to warranty coverage.
The extent of the repairs is substantial. In addition to replacing the strut mount, upper and lower side members, Porsche factory guidelines requires replacing knuckle, hub, bearing, stub axle and strut unit on the corner that failed. Add in the hood and fender and the preliminary estimate for repairs is now up to almost $35k.
I have a call in to an attorney specializing in automotive customer protection. If he decides to take on the case, I'll post his contact info for those others who might be interested in joining the fight.
A friend sent me this notice from PCA Club Racing -
Looks like PCA is well aware of the issue.
Update on my GT4 repairs - Friday, I received a call from the first Porsche authorized auto body repair shop who provided a preliminary repair quote (Amato's in San Diego). They are refusing to do the work because they do not want to take on the liability in case it fails again. The second authorized repair shop I contacted has experience in completing this repair on several cars but has heard of more than 30 failures. I brought this to PCNA's attention and they said their position would not change in regard to warranty coverage.
The extent of the repairs is substantial. In addition to replacing the strut mount, upper and lower side members, Porsche factory guidelines requires replacing knuckle, hub, bearing, stub axle and strut unit on the corner that failed. Add in the hood and fender and the preliminary estimate for repairs is now up to almost $35k.
I have a call in to an attorney specializing in automotive customer protection. If he decides to take on the case, I'll post his contact info for those others who might be interested in joining the fight.
^^
Thanks for the information. I've followed this thread from the beginning & read every single post. There is an established "Admin: GT4Strut Tower Database" at the top of the thread section, for which there are 0 entries.
If you review the entire thread, there's probably ~ 10 - 15 failures posted. I think it's a blatant exaggeration for a shop in San Diego to tell you, they know of over 30 failures, & this only adds to "hysteria".
Porsche is aware of this issue as well, & has yet to take any responsibility for possible parts defect/design flaw or whatever. A lot more transmission 3rd gears were defective from a production run, & they addressed this with a campaign.
Also, you should look into more quotes b/c members have posted costs of completed repairs at certified repair centres for ~ 20K.
^^
Thanks for the information. I've followed this thread from the beginning & read every single post. There is an established "Admin: GT4Strut Tower Database" at the top of the thread section, for which there are 0 entries.
If you review the entire thread, there's probably ~ 10 - 15 failures posted. I think it's a blatant exaggeration for a shop in San Diego to tell you, they know of over 30 failures, & this only adds to "hysteria".
Porsche is aware of this issue as well, & has yet to take any responsibility for possible parts defect/design flaw or whatever. A lot more transmission 3rd gears were defective from a production run, & they addressed this with a campaign.
Also, you should look into more quotes b/c members have posted costs of completed repairs at certified repair centres for ~ 20K.
For a list of failures, you need to open the document linked to the Admin: Database. There are less than 10 listed but there may be plenty more that do not follow Rennlist. I have dealt with PCNA at the highest levels and they are ignoring this problem and their customers. When my 3rd gear expired while on track, the dealer didn't seem to care but when the strut tower blew, PCNA blamed it on track use - go figure. I've also read the posts for lower repair costs but I'm not willing to have my car shipped to Dallas or the east coast to have it repaired. The first shop quoted $11.5k but if they are refusing to do the work, that really doesn't matter.
For a list of failures, you need to open the document linked to the Admin: Database. There are less than 10 listed but there may be plenty more that do not follow Rennlist. I have dealt with PCNA at the highest levels and they are ignoring this problem and their customers. When my 3rd gear expired while on track, the dealer didn't seem to care but when the strut tower blew, PCNA blamed it on track use - go figure. I've also read the posts for lower repair costs but I'm not willing to have my car shipped to Dallas or the east coast to have it repaired. The first shop quoted $11.5k but if they are refusing to do the work, that really doesn't matter.
My two cents, most Porsche owners generally are enthusiasts, and GT car owners even more so. I would bet that every GT4 owner who experienced a failure has visited this forum to find details. I’m sure there are exceptions, but generally the rule. You’re a great example of this.
also, have you thought about legal action against the dealer? There was probably previous damage they didn’t disclose. Maybe there can be some legal action taken there?
^^
Thanks for the information. I've followed this thread from the beginning & read every single post. There is an established "Admin: GT4Strut Tower Database" at the top of the thread section, for which there are 0 entries.
If you review the entire thread, there's probably ~ 10 - 15 failures posted. I think it's a blatant exaggeration for a shop in San Diego to tell you, they know of over 30 failures, & this only adds to "hysteria".
Porsche is aware of this issue as well, & has yet to take any responsibility for possible parts defect/design flaw or whatever. A lot more transmission 3rd gears were defective from a production run, & they addressed this with a campaign.
Also, you should look into more quotes b/c members have posted costs of completed repairs at certified repair centres for ~ 20K.
The primary difference between the GT4 transmission replacements and the strut tower "issue" is who ultimately pays for it. Porsche is doing the trans work because they are passing the full cost on to the trans supplier. However, Porsche has no one to "blame" for the strut tower failures besides themselves, so they would have to absorb entire cost of the recall and repairs. Just look at how things went with the whole M96/M97 IMS bearing debacle.
For a list of failures, you need to open the document linked to the Admin: Database. There are less than 10 listed but there may be plenty more that do not follow Rennlist. I have dealt with PCNA at the highest levels and they are ignoring this problem and their customers. When my 3rd gear expired while on track, the dealer didn't seem to care but when the strut tower blew, PCNA blamed it on track use - go figure. I've also read the posts for lower repair costs but I'm not willing to have my car shipped to Dallas or the east coast to have it repaired. The first shop quoted $11.5k but if they are refusing to do the work, that really doesn't matter.
I'm not interested in feuding with other members on this forum. I think this is an excellent community where enthusiasts can communicate on various issues & also debate things. It's extremely unfortunate that this incident happened on track. Porsche encourages owners to participate in track/autocross events & then you get left holding the bag. In a previous post I encouraged members who have had to deal with these fiascos get legal advice +/- class action lawsuit if necessary.
A few Rennlist members have used this shop in N. California & had good experiences. A couple dealerships that I'm aware of also use them for their services. The majority of their reviews are very +ve. I would give them a call, they're just north of the Golden gate a bit off US 101. https://www.barsottis.com/porsche.htm
Last edited by G-forceGT4; 06-17-2019 at 12:25 PM.
Reason: grammar
The primary difference between the GT4 transmission replacements and the strut tower "issue" is who ultimately pays for it. Porsche is doing the trans work because they are passing the full cost on to the trans supplier. However, Porsche has no one to "blame" for the strut tower failures besides themselves, so they would have to absorb entire cost of the recall and repairs. Just look at how things went with the whole M96/M97 IMS bearing debacle.
The primary difference between the GT4 transmission replacements and the strut tower "issue" is who ultimately pays for it. Porsche is doing the trans work because they are passing the full cost on to the trans supplier. However, Porsche has no one to "blame" for the strut tower failures besides themselves, so they would have to absorb entire cost of the recall and repairs. Just look at how things went with the whole M96/M97 IMS bearing debacle.
Good point. Having been a not-at-fault-but-they-tried-to-pass-the-buck-anyway vendor in the past, this sounds like a winner.
06-15-2019, 01:14 AM
