Orthojoe's GT4 track thread and ramblings
05-03-2016, 03:00 AM
#346
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Hi Joe, I had a couple questions about your rear toe links while I wait for my car.
1. (this might be obvious) It looks like the rear toe link attaches directly to the wheel carrier (is that what it's called?), so would I be correct in saying that interference between the toe link end and a 19 inch wheel should NOT be camber dependent, because they move together with different camber settings?
2. Do you think there is any more room with the Tarett link? It looks slightly rounder and lower profile. 1 mm would be important to me, since I'm OCD about offsets.
Thanks!
(keep us posted about the front tie-rods too!)
1. (this might be obvious) It looks like the rear toe link attaches directly to the wheel carrier (is that what it's called?), so would I be correct in saying that interference between the toe link end and a 19 inch wheel should NOT be camber dependent, because they move together with different camber settings?
2. Do you think there is any more room with the Tarett link? It looks slightly rounder and lower profile. 1 mm would be important to me, since I'm OCD about offsets.
Thanks!
(keep us posted about the front tie-rods too!)
2. he is on tarett links
the clearance issue is not with the wheel however.
05-03-2016, 03:22 AM
#347
Rennlist Member
Yup, just reminded me of the other issue. Looking forward to the tech session btw!
Yes, compared to pictures from others with OE links, it seems like the Taretts give a tiny bit more clearance though, am I crazy?
Yes, compared to pictures from others with OE links, it seems like the Taretts give a tiny bit more clearance though, am I crazy?
05-03-2016, 10:01 AM
#348
Drifting
Nope. Tarett designed their latest version of their links (called rear toe control arms) specifically to accommodate a 19" wheel; Porsche had no such consideration given OEM wheel diameter.
05-03-2016, 11:41 AM
#349
on mpsc and the re71s how does street driven miles effect track heat cycles?
i have dedicated sets of mpsc wheels for track and super sport street wheels for casual driving.
but back to heat cycles how does this relate and effect the tire.
if i drive for a half hour on the mpsc on the street -is that considered a heat cycle and am i shortening the tire out of track life?
i have dedicated sets of mpsc wheels for track and super sport street wheels for casual driving.
but back to heat cycles how does this relate and effect the tire.
if i drive for a half hour on the mpsc on the street -is that considered a heat cycle and am i shortening the tire out of track life?
05-03-2016, 12:29 PM
#350
on mpsc and the re71s how does street driven miles effect track heat cycles?
i have dedicated sets of mpsc wheels for track and super sport street wheels for casual driving.
but back to heat cycles how does this relate and effect the tire.
if i drive for a half hour on the mpsc on the street -is that considered a heat cycle and am i shortening the tire out of track life?
i have dedicated sets of mpsc wheels for track and super sport street wheels for casual driving.
but back to heat cycles how does this relate and effect the tire.
if i drive for a half hour on the mpsc on the street -is that considered a heat cycle and am i shortening the tire out of track life?
05-06-2016, 01:06 PM
#351
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Think of caving in and getting a set of OZ leggera HLT in 19" so I can run RE71R. These cup2s just don't last long enough and cost too much.
My only concerns are OZ rear wheels don't come in 10.5". Only 10" or 11". 11" will require a spacer. 10" is a full 1" more narrow than stock and the tires will be more narrow than stock as well. Am I going to feel a negative affect? Is running 11" with spacers just a hassle with no benefit? I don't want to spend $$$$ on forged wheels since that essentially negates any cost savings on cup2 tires.
My only concerns are OZ rear wheels don't come in 10.5". Only 10" or 11". 11" will require a spacer. 10" is a full 1" more narrow than stock and the tires will be more narrow than stock as well. Am I going to feel a negative affect? Is running 11" with spacers just a hassle with no benefit? I don't want to spend $$$$ on forged wheels since that essentially negates any cost savings on cup2 tires.
05-06-2016, 01:09 PM
#352
Burning Brakes
Once the 5mm spacer is bolted to the wheel hub...what's the hassle? It's like it's not even there when taking the rims on and off.
Or get the shorter tarret arm and you can run with no spacer(or maybe you already have the arm?)
5mm spacer set plus longer lug bolts $110 shipped from ECS tuning:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Porsche-20...ers/ES2702485/
Tarret arms, $500 each plus install plus alignment...
Either way I say get the 11" wheel. Without spacer it's the exact same offset and width as stock 20" plus allows you more choice in tires if you decide to use something other than the 285 wide RE71R
Or get the shorter tarret arm and you can run with no spacer(or maybe you already have the arm?)
5mm spacer set plus longer lug bolts $110 shipped from ECS tuning:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Porsche-20...ers/ES2702485/
Tarret arms, $500 each plus install plus alignment...
Either way I say get the 11" wheel. Without spacer it's the exact same offset and width as stock 20" plus allows you more choice in tires if you decide to use something other than the 285 wide RE71R
05-06-2016, 01:15 PM
#353
Joe - the RE71-R tires are smaller 245/40/19 and 285/35/19, so they fit the OZ wheels perfectly.
I noticed no negative effect. However, I'm likely slower than you are, so who knows.
From what I've read, no one has negative comments.
The Bridgestones don't last any longer, but they are 1/2 the cost. According to USC Trojan, they aren't slower either. Can't comment on that, my Cup II's are in a storage locker with 200 street miles on them. I saw the price difference early!
I noticed no negative effect. However, I'm likely slower than you are, so who knows.
From what I've read, no one has negative comments.The Bridgestones don't last any longer, but they are 1/2 the cost. According to USC Trojan, they aren't slower either. Can't comment on that, my Cup II's are in a storage locker with 200 street miles on them. I saw the price difference early!
05-06-2016, 01:20 PM
#354
Damn it. I was worried that we would get to this point and given that you have the experience in testing and the patience you have towards not making knee jerk changes...this means we all need to reconsider stock. ugh.
05-06-2016, 01:21 PM
#355
Rennlist Member
Think of caving in and getting a set of OZ leggera HLT in 19" so I can run RE71R. These cup2s just don't last long enough and cost too much.
My only concerns are OZ rear wheels don't come in 10.5". Only 10" or 11". 11" will require a spacer. 10" is a full 1" more narrow than stock and the tires will be more narrow than stock as well. Am I going to feel a negative affect? Is running 11" with spacers just a hassle with no benefit? I don't want to spend $$$$ on forged wheels since that essentially negates any cost savings on cup2 tires.
My only concerns are OZ rear wheels don't come in 10.5". Only 10" or 11". 11" will require a spacer. 10" is a full 1" more narrow than stock and the tires will be more narrow than stock as well. Am I going to feel a negative affect? Is running 11" with spacers just a hassle with no benefit? I don't want to spend $$$$ on forged wheels since that essentially negates any cost savings on cup2 tires.
05-06-2016, 01:27 PM
#356
Drifting
That's what I'm reading too about longevity. I knew I shouldn't expect GT4 tires to last as long as what I was used to, but I wasn't counting on only 1/3 of the lifespan. I'm not ready to cave and get wheels yet for a few different reasons, but if the data about RE-71Rs gripping as well or better in the dry and better in the wet while lasting as long and costing half as much are true, I only see three possible outcomes here:
1. The Cup 2s get a lot cheaper. Maybe not matching the RE-71R since Michelin arguably has more brand equity and has the "OE Equipment" designation, but the current price gap just doesn't make sense.
2. The Cup 2s get replaced with Cup 3s. They've been around for a while now, after all, although considering how many variants there are I'm amazed that all of these tires are allowed to go by the same name. The Bugatti Chiron uses Cup 2s as well, but I'm pretty sure they're significantly different from what's used elsewhere.
3. The RE-71Rs get a lot more expensive soon. I'm curious to see what they'll cost in GT4 OEM sizes. The N-spec Cup 2s cost a lot more than the other variants in the same sizes (although oddly the GT4 N-spec rear is more than the GT3 N-spec rear....), but hopefully this isn't the way the market goes.
I rode in a friend's M4 who had just gotten RE-71Rs and the only thing I heard was an occasional sucking noise starting around 60 MPH, which I recall Tire Rack mentioning as well, but the owner said it had already gotten less frequent than it was when they were first fitted, so maybe it's a break-in thing.
1. The Cup 2s get a lot cheaper. Maybe not matching the RE-71R since Michelin arguably has more brand equity and has the "OE Equipment" designation, but the current price gap just doesn't make sense.
2. The Cup 2s get replaced with Cup 3s. They've been around for a while now, after all, although considering how many variants there are I'm amazed that all of these tires are allowed to go by the same name. The Bugatti Chiron uses Cup 2s as well, but I'm pretty sure they're significantly different from what's used elsewhere.
3. The RE-71Rs get a lot more expensive soon. I'm curious to see what they'll cost in GT4 OEM sizes. The N-spec Cup 2s cost a lot more than the other variants in the same sizes (although oddly the GT4 N-spec rear is more than the GT3 N-spec rear....), but hopefully this isn't the way the market goes.
I rode in a friend's M4 who had just gotten RE-71Rs and the only thing I heard was an occasional sucking noise starting around 60 MPH, which I recall Tire Rack mentioning as well, but the owner said it had already gotten less frequent than it was when they were first fitted, so maybe it's a break-in thing.
05-06-2016, 01:49 PM
#357
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Once the 5mm spacer is bolted to the wheel hub...what's the hassle? It's like it's not even there when taking the rims on and off.
Or get the shorter tarret arm and you can run with no spacer(or maybe you already have the arm?)
5mm spacer set plus longer lug bolts $110 shipped from ECS tuning:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Porsche-20...ers/ES2702485/
Tarret arms, $500 each plus install plus alignment...
Either way I say get the 11" wheel. Without spacer it's the exact same offset and width as stock 20" plus allows you more choice in tires if you decide to use something other than the 285 wide RE71R
Or get the shorter tarret arm and you can run with no spacer(or maybe you already have the arm?)
5mm spacer set plus longer lug bolts $110 shipped from ECS tuning:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Porsche-20...ers/ES2702485/
Tarret arms, $500 each plus install plus alignment...
Either way I say get the 11" wheel. Without spacer it's the exact same offset and width as stock 20" plus allows you more choice in tires if you decide to use something other than the 285 wide RE71R
Joe - the RE71-R tires are smaller 245/40/19 and 285/35/19, so they fit the OZ wheels perfectly.
I noticed no negative effect. However, I'm likely slower than you are, so who knows. From what I've read, no one has negative comments.
The Bridgestones don't last any longer, but they are 1/2 the cost. According to USC Trojan, they aren't slower either. Can't comment on that, my Cup II's are in a storage locker with 200 street miles on them. I saw the price difference early!
I noticed no negative effect. However, I'm likely slower than you are, so who knows.
From what I've read, no one has negative comments.The Bridgestones don't last any longer, but they are 1/2 the cost. According to USC Trojan, they aren't slower either. Can't comment on that, my Cup II's are in a storage locker with 200 street miles on them. I saw the price difference early!
That's what I'm reading too about longevity. I knew I shouldn't expect GT4 tires to last as long as what I was used to, but I wasn't counting on only 1/3 of the lifespan. I'm not ready to cave and get wheels yet for a few different reasons, but if the data about RE-71Rs gripping as well or better in the dry and better in the wet while lasting as long and costing half as much are true, I only see three possible outcomes here:
1. The Cup 2s get a lot cheaper. Maybe not matching the RE-71R since Michelin arguably has more brand equity and has the "OE Equipment" designation, but the current price gap just doesn't make sense.
2. The Cup 2s get replaced with Cup 3s. They've been around for a while now, after all, although considering how many variants there are I'm amazed that all of these tires are allowed to go by the same name. The Bugatti Chiron uses Cup 2s as well, but I'm pretty sure they're significantly different from what's used elsewhere.
3. The RE-71Rs get a lot more expensive soon. I'm curious to see what they'll cost in GT4 OEM sizes. The N-spec Cup 2s cost a lot more than the other variants in the same sizes (although oddly the GT4 N-spec rear is more than the GT3 N-spec rear....), but hopefully this isn't the way the market goes.
I rode in a friend's M4 who had just gotten RE-71Rs and the only thing I heard was an occasional sucking noise starting around 60 MPH, which I recall Tire Rack mentioning as well, but the owner said it had already gotten less frequent than it was when they were first fitted, so maybe it's a break-in thing.
1. The Cup 2s get a lot cheaper. Maybe not matching the RE-71R since Michelin arguably has more brand equity and has the "OE Equipment" designation, but the current price gap just doesn't make sense.
2. The Cup 2s get replaced with Cup 3s. They've been around for a while now, after all, although considering how many variants there are I'm amazed that all of these tires are allowed to go by the same name. The Bugatti Chiron uses Cup 2s as well, but I'm pretty sure they're significantly different from what's used elsewhere.
3. The RE-71Rs get a lot more expensive soon. I'm curious to see what they'll cost in GT4 OEM sizes. The N-spec Cup 2s cost a lot more than the other variants in the same sizes (although oddly the GT4 N-spec rear is more than the GT3 N-spec rear....), but hopefully this isn't the way the market goes.
I rode in a friend's M4 who had just gotten RE-71Rs and the only thing I heard was an occasional sucking noise starting around 60 MPH, which I recall Tire Rack mentioning as well, but the owner said it had already gotten less frequent than it was when they were first fitted, so maybe it's a break-in thing.
05-06-2016, 01:55 PM
#358
Burning Brakes
The older tarett rear toe link. it's listed as "toe link all 981". Part# ERP981.009
Do not get the "newer" 981tlnk. it has less clearance than oem.
05-06-2016, 01:59 PM
#359
Think of caving in and getting a set of OZ leggera HLT in 19" so I can run RE71R. These cup2s just don't last long enough and cost too much.
My only concerns are OZ rear wheels don't come in 10.5". Only 10" or 11". 11" will require a spacer. 10" is a full 1" more narrow than stock and the tires will be more narrow than stock as well. Am I going to feel a negative affect? Is running 11" with spacers just a hassle with no benefit? I don't want to spend $$$$ on forged wheels since that essentially negates any cost savings on cup2 tires.
My only concerns are OZ rear wheels don't come in 10.5". Only 10" or 11". 11" will require a spacer. 10" is a full 1" more narrow than stock and the tires will be more narrow than stock as well. Am I going to feel a negative affect? Is running 11" with spacers just a hassle with no benefit? I don't want to spend $$$$ on forged wheels since that essentially negates any cost savings on cup2 tires.
05-06-2016, 02:12 PM
#360
