718 GT4?
07-13-2019, 04:28 PM
#8221
Congrats - can I ask which dealer. I have had a deposit for over 2 years. Just sent a note to my SA inquiring.
07-13-2019, 04:39 PM
#8223
Thanks - it looks like it will be brilliant car. I traded in my 360 Spyder a few years back but was too late to get Spyder or GT4. That why hoping this time.
07-13-2019, 05:43 PM
#8224
I had a deposit down on the new GT4, but it looks like I may pull the trigger on a low mileage 981 GT4. I don't think I am going to notice a difference in driving experience between the two platforms for what I'll use it for (weekend enjoyment) and I think the original may be more desirable long term given its personality.
Time will tell however. There will be plenty of opportunities to switch in the future or to the next iteration - whatever that will be.
Time will tell however. There will be plenty of opportunities to switch in the future or to the next iteration - whatever that will be.
Probably not
.
And even if you are solely into spec-sheet numbers, take away the tire argument for a moment and compare the horsepower curves of the 718 to the 981.
It's pretty clear that the 981 puts out more horsepower (and nearly as much torque) all the way up to 6,000 rpm.
It's not till > 6,000 that the 718 has the advantage.
Show me anyone that is able to consistently drive their GT4 above 6,000 rpm on the weekends
and I'll show you someone that has their license taken away after just a couple of months.
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07-13-2019, 06:05 PM
#8225
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Yeah, there are a couple of posters here that are totally gushing over the alleged 12 second difference in Ring times, which we all know is a high speed track that benefits from better aero and doesnt penalize a greater weight difference compared to tighter, shorter tracks. - - - These posters highly discount the difference in "delta" when it comes to the 3 kilometers of recently resurfaced track, as well as the new tires. But in real world driving, will any of us be able to really "feel" that 12 second Ring difference in their "driving" experience?
Probably not
.
And even if you are solely into spec-sheet numbers, take away the tire argument for a moment and compare the horsepower curves of the 718 to the 981.
It's pretty clear that the 981 puts out more horsepower (and nearly as much torque) all the way up to 6,000 rpm.
It's not till > 6,000 that the 718 has the advantage.
Show me anyone that is able to consistently drive their GT4 above 6,000 rpm on the weekends
and I'll show you someone that has their license taken away after just a couple of months.
Probably not
.
And even if you are solely into spec-sheet numbers, take away the tire argument for a moment and compare the horsepower curves of the 718 to the 981.
It's pretty clear that the 981 puts out more horsepower (and nearly as much torque) all the way up to 6,000 rpm.
It's not till > 6,000 that the 718 has the advantage.
Show me anyone that is able to consistently drive their GT4 above 6,000 rpm on the weekends
and I'll show you someone that has their license taken away after just a couple of months.
Most importantly for the street, the new motor has significantly more low end torque (~333 vs 300 NM) around 1500 RPM to aid starts and turns when driving in town, and also little more torque around 3500 RPM (370 vs 360 NM). The old motor has a little more torque at the 2500 RPM first peak though (350 NM new vs 370 NM old). At 4500 RPM, the old motor is very slightly stronger (400 NM new vs 410 NM old), and at 5000 RPM they’re tied at the same torque, so same power. Above 6K RPM, the new motor wins as it maintains torque till 6800 RPM instead of starting to drop off.
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Diablo Dude (07-13-2019)
07-13-2019, 06:16 PM
#8226
. . . The old motor has a little more torque at the 2500 RPM first peak though (350 NM new vs 370 NM old). At 4500 RPM, the old motor is very slightly stronger (400 NM new vs 410 NM old), and at 5000 RPM they’re tied at the same torque, so same power. Above 6K RPM, the new motor wins as it maintains torque till 6800 RPM instead of starting to drop off.
07-13-2019, 06:53 PM
#8228
Rennlist Member
While it’s true that the extra top end power and better aero will be of limited use on the street, the graph someone posted claiming lower torque than 981 throughout and less HP at the same torque is wrong. That’s not how math works. Power = torque * RPM.
Most importantly for the street, the new motor has significantly more low end torque (~333 vs 300 NM) around 1500 RPM to aid starts and turns when driving in town, and also little more torque around 3500 RPM (370 vs 360 NM). The old motor has a little more torque at the 2500 RPM first peak though (350 NM new vs 370 NM old). At 4500 RPM, the old motor is very slightly stronger (400 NM new vs 410 NM old), and at 5000 RPM they’re tied at the same torque, so same power. Above 6K RPM, the new motor wins as it maintains torque till 6800 RPM instead of starting to drop off.
Most importantly for the street, the new motor has significantly more low end torque (~333 vs 300 NM) around 1500 RPM to aid starts and turns when driving in town, and also little more torque around 3500 RPM (370 vs 360 NM). The old motor has a little more torque at the 2500 RPM first peak though (350 NM new vs 370 NM old). At 4500 RPM, the old motor is very slightly stronger (400 NM new vs 410 NM old), and at 5000 RPM they’re tied at the same torque, so same power. Above 6K RPM, the new motor wins as it maintains torque till 6800 RPM instead of starting to drop off.
07-13-2019, 07:10 PM
#8229
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Agree with all the incremental improvements,.I just don't see how it will be that much for 'fun' to drive over the old one. There are plenty of cars better on paper, many with less personality. Hopefully it will, and if so time will tell. But there were many things better about the 996 on paper then the 993.
With that said, I think top end power and high revving is exactly what is fun about naturally aspirated cars. The new motor sustains torque 800 RPM higher, and encourages you to rev it until the 8K RPM redline, whereas the old motor didn’t reward revving it up as much.
Among other improvements to fun:
- The new auto-blip button is also good for letting people choose whether or not they want to manually rev match or auto rev match in any mode - people used to complain about auto rev match taking away fun on the 981.
- Less understeer (in stock form) and a better tuned suspension should make the car more rewarding on track.
- The slicker, more precise shifter should feel more satisfying.
- Improved steering feel/feedback from electric steering (at least claimed by Preuninger, haven’t felt it myself of course)
I also like the new styling better than the old, but that’s very subjective I admit.
07-13-2019, 07:25 PM
#8230
Rennlist Member
07-13-2019, 09:15 PM
#8231
My dealer guaranteed me an allocation for a Spyder at MSRP today! I placed a deposit with them last year. $121k CAD ($93k USD), $124k CAD after the dealer fees ($95k USD). Hooray for Canada - probably the cheapest country to buy German cars in the whole world!
Nicely optioned too:
Nicely optioned too:
- GT silver
- Red top
- Spyder classic interior (red and black)
- Model designation delete
- 2 way sport seats plus
- Seat heating
- LED lights
- Light design package
- Auto climate control
- Auto dimming mirrors and auto wipers
- Bose
- Apple CarPlay (should remain useful longer and work better than Porsche Nav)
07-13-2019, 10:10 PM
#8232
The absence of punch at the top end in these gears in the 981 has been addressed with 718 Also AP really likes the long second too A 1-2s per minute change is the difference between being up front or bringing up the rear. These are GT cars, they are designed to be used and driven hard. Thats why they are popular in club level motorsport - something like 4 out of 5 GT4s see meaningful track time.
Thats what the GT4 department does - build genuine track capable road cars.
What appears incremental to you is material to others
and whether you like it or not a 12s improvement in ring time is registered against the 718GT4. Does this matter - only in so much its a guide but I strongly suspect it will be backed up in further track tests. Just watch out for the PDK version.........What I sense from this thread is some people are looking at a spec sheet and coming to the conclusion that theres little difference. In that assumption, there is a strong misread on how the GT dept. works. The continuous improvement mantra has been applied across the board - in coming tests, I have no doubt the full impact of these changes will be revealed. Moreover, the impacts of these changes are self evident in the recently released reviews.
"This new GT4 is a beautifully balanced car, the front and rear axles working in harmony through both fast and slow corners. In fact, it's probably the best balanced Porsche in history, stable and progressive at the limit. This, combined with the sublime precision of the steering and the glorious crispness of the throttle response, allows you to place the GT4 exactly where you want it, exactly when you want to, and to effortlessly adjust your cornering line if needed." Angus Mackenzie, Motortrend.
"But ultimately, there's nothing to match this level of precision, balance and feel at this price point, and little beyond it in terms of pure behind-the-wheel appeal. And I'll say it again: this chassis is nothing short of sensational. It's simply joyful on a charge. Once we've driven the Cayman GT4 on the road, the full five stars beckon."
"For a similarly engaging mid-engined experience on track, you need to look to the likes of the McLaren 600LT and Ferrari 488 Pista." Autocar.
In regard to the spec sheet comment - I have seen this in regard to my .2 RS. Compare a .1RS spec sheet to a .2RS spec sheet and you may think marginal improvement due to the addition of a little more torque (10Nm) and 20HP added to the top end. The reality is the difference between the two is very significant and this is borne out by multiple track tests. This is exactly how it will roll with the 718 GT4 relative to the 981 GT4.
Last edited by groundhog; 07-14-2019 at 12:13 AM.
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008 (07-13-2019)
07-14-2019, 04:34 AM
#8233
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Or in fact on many tracks where the go to gears are three and four The absence of punch at the top end in these gears in the 981 has been addressed with 718 Also AP really likes the long second too
How about the people that take part in all sorts of Motorsport at different levels on the weekend
A 1-2s per minute change is the difference between being up front or bringing up the rear. These are GT cars, they are designed to be used and driven hard. Thats why they are popular in club level motorsport - something like 4 out of 5 GT4s see meaningful track time.
Thats what the GT4 department does - build genuine track capable road cars.
What appears incremental to you is material to others and whether you like it or not a 12s improvement in ring time is registered against the 718GT4. Does this matter - only in so much its a guide but I strongly suspect it will be backed up in further track tests. Just watch out for the PDK version.........
What I sense from this thread is some people are looking at a spec sheet and coming to the conclusion that theres little difference. In that assumption, there is a strong misread on how the GT dept. works. The continuous improvement mantra has been applied across the board - in coming tests, I have no doubt the full impact of these changes will be revealed. Moreover, the impacts of these changes are self evident in the recently released reviews.
"This new GT4 is a beautifully balanced car, the front and rear axles working in harmony through both fast and slow corners. In fact, it's probably the best balanced Porsche in history, stable and progressive at the limit. This, combined with the sublime precision of the steering and the glorious crispness of the throttle response, allows you to place the GT4 exactly where you want it, exactly when you want to, and to effortlessly adjust your cornering line if needed." Angus Mackenzie, Motortrend.
"But ultimately, there's nothing to match this level of precision, balance and feel at this price point, and little beyond it in terms of pure behind-the-wheel appeal. And I'll say it again: this chassis is nothing short of sensational. It's simply joyful on a charge. Once we've driven the Cayman GT4 on the road, the full five stars beckon."
"For a similarly engaging mid-engined experience on track, you need to look to the likes of the McLaren 600LT and Ferrari 488 Pista." Autocar.
In regard to the spec sheet comment - I have seen this in regard to my .2 RS. Compare a .1RS spec sheet to a .2RS spec sheet and you may think marginal improvement due to the addition of a little more torque (10Nm) and 20HP added to the top end. The reality is the difference between the two is very significant and this is borne out by multiple track tests. This is exactly how it will roll with the 718 GT4 relative to the 981 GT4.
The absence of punch at the top end in these gears in the 981 has been addressed with 718 Also AP really likes the long second too How about the people that take part in all sorts of Motorsport at different levels on the weekend
A 1-2s per minute change is the difference between being up front or bringing up the rear. These are GT cars, they are designed to be used and driven hard. Thats why they are popular in club level motorsport - something like 4 out of 5 GT4s see meaningful track time.
Thats what the GT4 department does - build genuine track capable road cars.
What appears incremental to you is material to others
and whether you like it or not a 12s improvement in ring time is registered against the 718GT4. Does this matter - only in so much its a guide but I strongly suspect it will be backed up in further track tests. Just watch out for the PDK version.........What I sense from this thread is some people are looking at a spec sheet and coming to the conclusion that theres little difference. In that assumption, there is a strong misread on how the GT dept. works. The continuous improvement mantra has been applied across the board - in coming tests, I have no doubt the full impact of these changes will be revealed. Moreover, the impacts of these changes are self evident in the recently released reviews.
"This new GT4 is a beautifully balanced car, the front and rear axles working in harmony through both fast and slow corners. In fact, it's probably the best balanced Porsche in history, stable and progressive at the limit. This, combined with the sublime precision of the steering and the glorious crispness of the throttle response, allows you to place the GT4 exactly where you want it, exactly when you want to, and to effortlessly adjust your cornering line if needed." Angus Mackenzie, Motortrend.
"But ultimately, there's nothing to match this level of precision, balance and feel at this price point, and little beyond it in terms of pure behind-the-wheel appeal. And I'll say it again: this chassis is nothing short of sensational. It's simply joyful on a charge. Once we've driven the Cayman GT4 on the road, the full five stars beckon."
"For a similarly engaging mid-engined experience on track, you need to look to the likes of the McLaren 600LT and Ferrari 488 Pista." Autocar.
In regard to the spec sheet comment - I have seen this in regard to my .2 RS. Compare a .1RS spec sheet to a .2RS spec sheet and you may think marginal improvement due to the addition of a little more torque (10Nm) and 20HP added to the top end. The reality is the difference between the two is very significant and this is borne out by multiple track tests. This is exactly how it will roll with the 718 GT4 relative to the 981 GT4.
"Indeed, the chassis-performance bar has been sent into orbit. How high? Put it this way: The 718 Spyder and GT4 may be the two best handling production cars I’ve ever driven" Andy Pilgrim
The difference between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 is significant. Just reading the spec sheet ie 0-100 time or new tyres is indeed very misleading. GT cars are measured by their track credentials not just traffic light games. The 718 GT4 is more rounded and exciting than its predecessor. Other improvements include new dampers and the latest torque vectoring setup. Discovered another improvement ...PSM can be turned off in 2 steps. Not sure that the 981 GT4 had that. Please correct me if so.
As you mention the PDK is a very interesting proposition and one that is tempting me.
07-14-2019, 05:46 AM
#8234
Have to say the reviews are excellent and even better than expected.
"Indeed, the chassis-performance bar has been sent into orbit. How high? Put it this way: The 718 Spyder and GT4 may be the two best handling production cars I’ve ever driven" Andy Pilgrim
The difference between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 is significant. Just reading the spec sheet ie 0-100 time or new tyres is indeed very misleading. GT cars are measured by their track credentials not just traffic light games. The 718 GT4 is more rounded and exciting than its predecessor. Other improvements include new dampers and the latest torque vectoring setup. Discovered another improvement ...PSM can be turned off in 2 steps. Not sure that the 981 GT4 had that. Please correct me if so.
As you mention the PDK is a very interesting proposition and one that is tempting me.
"Indeed, the chassis-performance bar has been sent into orbit. How high? Put it this way: The 718 Spyder and GT4 may be the two best handling production cars I’ve ever driven" Andy Pilgrim
The difference between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 is significant. Just reading the spec sheet ie 0-100 time or new tyres is indeed very misleading. GT cars are measured by their track credentials not just traffic light games. The 718 GT4 is more rounded and exciting than its predecessor. Other improvements include new dampers and the latest torque vectoring setup. Discovered another improvement ...PSM can be turned off in 2 steps. Not sure that the 981 GT4 had that. Please correct me if so.
As you mention the PDK is a very interesting proposition and one that is tempting me.
Significant.............. Really ???
07-14-2019, 07:01 AM
#8235
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Definition of Significant as per Oxford Dictionary:
"large or important enough to have an effect or to be noticed"
* Increase in power from 283kw to 309 kw (26kw) - significant
* Increase in torque across 5000-6800rpm - significant
* 50 percent increase in downforce without change in drag - significant
* Faster by 12 seconds on the Nordschiefe - significant
* Change in dampers, torque vectoring - significant
* and many other changes (still yet to be disclosed) including small change in tyres (N0 to N1)- all significant
You could argue the price change is a significant change as well. Improvement costs. But the 981 GT4 was just a beginning and priced to ready the market for the next generation. The differences/changes/improvements between the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 are significant. Matter of opinion if those changes are significant enough for those of you that have a 981 GT4 to move up to a 718 GT4. Its a faster car by 1-2 seconds per minute on a track - significant for a GT car. Another amazing car from Porsche.