718 GT4?
06-03-2018, 09:45 PM
#2311
Rennlist Member
Not sure how accurate this info is, but my local dealer told me yesterday that third quarter 2019 is when to expect this.
06-03-2018, 09:58 PM
#2312
Three Wheelin'
06-03-2018, 10:18 PM
#2313
I never understood the obsession with low end torque. If you take the old engine and add a bunch of mid-range the top will feel even flatter because there's less of a power increase as revs build. What it needs is proper gearing so you don't have to exit tight corners at 3500RPM in second gear. They can add all the torque they want with turbos in the Carrera S and 718 daily drivers but cars like the GT4 I very much prefer to have to rev their nuts off to get to the meat.
I had a good dig and found some curves based on official Porsche numbers and it is clear the powerkit engine only delivers more performance over the last 1000 rpm of the rev range (at least relative to the 991S) - this means in all other aspects the 718 GT4 will drive in a near identical fashion to the 981 GT4. That would not be a good reason to change over from the 981.
In which case, I get the 718 Spyder old school manual, old school engine (at a premium price on a cost/design age basis) but not the GT4 (which basically hasn't gained any performance credentials to maximise the performance of a superceded engine.g. PDK) e.g. if it doesn't feel different/improved why bother?
So my faint hope is, given that Porsche are going to the "trouble" to stroke the engine to 4l, they will also take the time and effort to improve the intake and general breathing (and possibly compression ratio). If not there doesn't seem much point to the new GT4, other than from the POV of marketing e.g. the 718 GT4 with the "new" 4l NA engine (which in reality is a ten year old engine with a powerkit cam shaft).
Edit: I had a cup of coffee and was reading the thread the "718S is quicker than my GT4" - there was a poster in this thread that pointed out his 987 S was quicker than his GT4 due the ability to get quality rubber (soft 050s) for 18s that clear the brakes. So for the weekend track hacks where PBs, time or positions matter in various comps - the 718 GTS with tune ~ 415HP, SPASM, PTV, PDK etc plus the ability to fit 18s and super sticky tires, will probably be a better proposition than a manual 718 GT4 with an old engine maxed out from the factory, and lack of brake clearing wheel and tire combos.
And then I watched this
and power to weight ~ 320HP/tonne . So perhaps there is plenty of light at the end of the tunnel.
Last edited by groundhog; 06-04-2018 at 12:25 AM. Reason: typo
06-03-2018, 10:32 PM
#2314
So I was reading about the new BMW M2 competition. Amazing car I am sure and closest in soul to the OLD M3s. Considered by some to be a competitor to the Cayman/GT4 line. I feel BMW has largely lost its way as the ultimate driving machine (which I don't believe they even use that motto any more anywhere). Most of their models now drive like a sporty looking Lexus. I feel only the M division retains any of that old soul, and even then, only certain models like the M2. So M2s and certainly the competition model have been/are/will be sold by most dealers with significant ADM. BUT I have to ask, what really makes that car special long term?? It is a turbo charged car with a dual clutch (though you can still get a manual). And using that technology, you can keep producing a better performing next generation model. So now getting back to Porsche and the existing and upcoming GT4/Spyder... they are rear wheel drive, naturally aspirated, mid engine, and stick shift. How many other cars are like that today? And certainly the future?? So if you have a 981 or 718 GT4/Spyder, it seems to be a far more collectible option than say a M2 for a driving enthusiast. One video car review said it best... every sports car/sedan today whether it be a Civic, Hellcat, Corvette, Cadillac, and on and on can be blindingly fast. They can run 0-60 in the 3s and on and on. What you want is FUN TO DRIVE.. not necessarily the fastest car.
Of course, the big question is will the 718 GT4/Spyder be the last NA of this line? Many thought the 981 would be and they were ALMOST correct. Thoughts on the likelihood the next gen GT4/Spyder after the 718 will be NA? Right now, I haven't even been able to find what the new model designation will be after the 718.
Of course, the big question is will the 718 GT4/Spyder be the last NA of this line? Many thought the 981 would be and they were ALMOST correct. Thoughts on the likelihood the next gen GT4/Spyder after the 718 will be NA? Right now, I haven't even been able to find what the new model designation will be after the 718.
06-03-2018, 10:59 PM
#2315
Three Wheelin'
Oh my.....for the love of sports cars, NO (granted this is very subjective). I had a loaner LC and a couple F cars and I strongly disagree. Touring cars? Yes they are ok, but I think they might be the most numb cars I've ever driven!!!!!!??????? I want to feel the rubber bending through steering wheel!!!!!!
06-03-2018, 11:08 PM
#2316
Other than the LFA, the words Lexus and sportscar should never appear in the same sentence.
06-03-2018, 11:14 PM
#2317
Three Wheelin'
06-03-2018, 11:30 PM
#2318
double up bad connection
06-03-2018, 11:51 PM
#2319
great video!
Cayman GT4 $1661.39 per sec
GT3RS $3416.67 per sec
Cayman GT4 $1661.39 per sec
GT3RS $3416.67 per sec
06-04-2018, 12:30 AM
#2320
06-04-2018, 09:58 AM
#2321
That having been said, I agree with the others. Lexus does not make a sports car. Go drive an M2 then go drive a RC. It's not even close. For LC money, you can get an M5. Notice how Lexus compares their LC to the DB11, another great touring car. Yes, BMW has lost their way but I don't think it's entirely the engineers fault. You can make the argument that Porsche is dumbing down the 911, but Porsche still releases models like the 911T just like BMW releases the M2 as a back to basics sports car. They also haven't completely abandoned what makes their cars fun to drive and the M division still turns out impressive cars.
06-04-2018, 04:49 PM
#2322
Oh my.....for the love of sports cars, NO (granted this is very subjective). I had a loaner LC and a couple F cars and I strongly disagree. Touring cars? Yes they are ok, but I think they might be the most numb cars I've ever driven!!!!!!??????? I want to feel the rubber bending through steering wheel!!!!!!
06-04-2018, 04:50 PM
#2323
The OG M2 was absolutely sold with an ADM. Egregious ones in Socal (GT3 level ADM of 20-50k). The M2C will also be sold with an ADM. Demand isn't going to be any less than the OG M2 because of all the M4 drivers switching over and those who waited for the S55.
That having been said, I agree with the others. Lexus does not make a sports car. Go drive an M2 then go drive a RC. It's not even close. For LC money, you can get an M5. Notice how Lexus compares their LC to the DB11, another great touring car. Yes, BMW has lost their way but I don't think it's entirely the engineers fault. You can make the argument that Porsche is dumbing down the 911, but Porsche still releases models like the 911T just like BMW releases the M2 as a back to basics sports car. They also haven't completely abandoned what makes their cars fun to drive and the M division still turns out impressive cars.
That having been said, I agree with the others. Lexus does not make a sports car. Go drive an M2 then go drive a RC. It's not even close. For LC money, you can get an M5. Notice how Lexus compares their LC to the DB11, another great touring car. Yes, BMW has lost their way but I don't think it's entirely the engineers fault. You can make the argument that Porsche is dumbing down the 911, but Porsche still releases models like the 911T just like BMW releases the M2 as a back to basics sports car. They also haven't completely abandoned what makes their cars fun to drive and the M division still turns out impressive cars.
06-04-2018, 10:06 PM
#2325
Rennlist Member
<breathing easier>
Then the cycle may start all over again.
BTW,... dealer currently has 2 GT4s for sale, both listed for over MSRP.