burglar

Pretty sure a 996/997 will never be classified competitively in Street. SCCA clearly wants Street to be run by popular, late model cars. I actually prefer that thinking to the former "best of breed" philosophy. Trying to find unicorn MS-Rs, Z0ks, and S2000 CRs was a pain in the ***.

Only exception is ES, or "cheap stock" back when it was called CS before the re-org.

I could see a 986 possibly fitting in ES about when the FR-S, NC, and RX-8 get moved into there in a few years.

Just as an exercise, what would an STU 996 look like? Would all the gt3 suspension goodies pop right on? Plenty of camber with that stuff, right? Looks like there's a Quaife and Guard LSD options. Pretty sure 285s at the rear would be no problem, how much fits up front? How much weight comes out with the seats, header, & exhaust? How much "easy" power is there to find?

If we sort this stuff out, with comparisons to the C5 and 350z, maybe we could make a good case for the 996 in STU.

I think there is zero chance of an STR Boxster, or it would have happened by now. The kicking out of the 350z shows that the class is a bit of a sacred cow.

mopar bob

https://sites.google.com/site/camber...utting-process This was just posted on my local SCCA solo site. It looks like if you want to shave your tirs you can get up to -2.5 deg. added chamber. I know the Lotus that I run against shaves his tires but I'm not sure if he adds more chamber. This is something to think about.

PedalFaster

That won't make much of a difference for two reasons. Firstly, I'm pretty certain that no one on the SAC or SEB thinks that the 911 is competitive in A Street, and that the reason it's there is concern that it might be too fast for B Street. Given that, losing in AS would just confirm what's already known.

Secondly, don't take this the wrong way, but if you don't have a national-level track record (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you do), then your results don't lend any insight into classing unless you win everything. For example, everyone knows who Mark Daddio is: Mark Daddio consistently runs at the very front of his class no matter what he's driving, so if he switches to a different car, spends a lot of time in it developing it and getting seat time, then finishes midpack at Nationals, it's safe to say that that car is uncompetitive. Conversely, if someone with no national-level track record shows up and places midpack at Nationals, how do we know how much of that was driver and how much was car?

You need to consider the big picture instead of how the specific narrow allowance you want would affect the specific car that you have right now. Allowing just Exclusive wheels for just Porsches would be unprecedented. If that was allowed (which I can't see happening), it would likely be via a rule change legalizing all Exclusive options, after which all Porsches would be classed based on the potential of a maxxed-out car with all of the performance-enhancing Exclusive options installed. This would make all Porsches that don't have all of the performance-enhancing Exclusive options installed (i.e. 99.9% of them) even less competitive than they are today.

Don't read my comments above as me trying to insult you or belittle your arguments. It just seems that you guys aren't super familiar about how SCCA Street classing has typically worked in the past, and are making iffy assumptions as a result.

knfeparty

As an example, I got stomped in 2013 in the 996 in AS, having autocrossed it for 5 years. I only beat one driver who wasn't my codriver.

Having never driven an S2000 before, street or autocross, I showed up to STR in 2014 and was in the lower half of the middle. I think part of that is that there are more bad drivers like me in STR.

Is that a good illustration of this concept?

knfeparty

I think the 996 falls in the category of street touring because it has rear seats. The e46 M3 is allowed, right? Rear seats was the original premise. STR is the only one that makes sense for the boxster/cayman, unfortunately. I think a 986 non-S would be plenty fair, though.

I'm not interested in street prepared because the mods are too harsh for a street car. A/C removal, etc.

I would be interested in street touring now that I can't run R-comps anyways. I would love to lower my 911!

Say we decide to write, arguing the 996 for STU. What's the basis? It looks comparable to plenty of current STU cars, like the e46 and e90 M3, the v6 genesis, etc. Our engine size falls within the STX realm, but the car belongs in STU. We would be able to run 285 width tires and unlimited wheel size. I don't know why you would go beyond the setup we run now with 8 and 10" widths, 255 and 285 tires.

balefire

it would be fun to run my 996 in STU...
i would love a lowered car too!

burglar

Just to add to the XRR fire, this car is for sale on that bird themed Porsche site:



XRR Carrera Sports on a base Cayman!

And wouldn't you know he has the window sticker:



DANGER TO MANIFOLD: Exclusive option. So current thinking is Exclusive options are no-gos? That includes things like the X51 Carrera power kit for the 996 like this car has?

cretinx

So I think the consensus is that we should all write letters requesting the 996 be allowed to run in STU?

Here's the link to write the letter - let's all commit to sending one.

Talking points -

986 to STR - why?
-Limiting it to 255 treadwear hamstrings any performance advantage it may have (some of them come stock with 265s already).
-Power-wise, its already outgunned by the BMWs, Honda, 370z, Carrera 3.2, and 968.
-Weight wise its heavier than the Miata, Solstice and MR2

996 to STU
-It has a back seat
-It has a smaller displacement than the 5.1L for the class
-Pretty much every other competitor in the class has more power, and some have AWD.
-Running 285s in the rear doesn't give it any advantage - it already runs those in stock, and it can't run those up front anyways.

Anything else I'm missing?

cretinx

Something like this pretty much proves exclusive options SHOULD be legal, but, like has been mentioned, could backfire and result in even more punitive stock classing.

burglar

Since I was going through the rules today anyways, I noticed you link would be illegal for SCCA Street or Street Touring by 13.3.C.2 on pg.74:

balefire

agree. EXCLUSIVE options should be legal as they can be ordered direct from factory. and is it possible for Porsche to be classed even worse than it is now in Street?

PedalFaster

I'm totally confused by why you guys want this. Best case scenario if Exclusive options are legalized is that you'll have to buy new wheels, and potentially suspension, motor mods, and various other pieces to convert your existing cars to the optimal configuration. You'll also make it that much harder for someone new to the car to build an optimal car, which will in turn give the SAC further incentive to class the car conservatively.

Worst case scenario (and the answer to your "how much worse can it be?" question) is that the base 911s get moved back alongside the GT3 (i.e. SS for 996s, and exclusion list for 991s), which is where they were for several years.

This definitely seems like one of those "careful what you wish for, because you just might get it" scenarios.

knfeparty

I agree with PedalFaster on be careful what you wish for. Allowing exclusive options basically allows us to run street touring mods made by Porsche on our street class cars. They don't allow us in street touring, so it's only natural we would want some sort of outlet other than street prepared.

Here's a slippery slope, now that we see an XRR window sticker that says "Greensboro, NC" right on it. Some 996s came STANDARD with X51, like mine! I'm afraid they'll go after the 40th like they did the S2000 CR.

Per Cretinx's post, that window sticker does pretty much prove that at least some exclusive options should be legal. I doubt GT3 buckets were avail in the states due to safety rules. America is too fat to allow those seats to be safe. Ditto on x74; I don't think it would meet crash standards due to bumper height. But things like wheels we should be able to do if we show up with really hard evidence like that window sticker ^^. I just wouldn't go asking for a blanket statement.

I would agree to write a letter to SEB regarding the 996 in STU. I don't know anything about 986s honestly, but I think another point to add (to both cars) is that the prices are low now, and now that IMS bearing fixes are explicitly allowed in the rules, that skeleton is out of the closet.

I just noticed that XRR Cayman was delivered to the same place my car was! That place is really cool.

mopar bob

That is cut and dry on tire shaving. I'm not looking at shaving mine as I use my car as a DD.

btwyx

I always get my competition/track tires shaved to about 5/32. TireRack will do it SCCA legal for $15 a tire.