scca stock class becoming street class!
#256
Drifting
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Yeah, Han's posted here about it, too (or maybe it was on sccaforums?); as far as I know, retrofitting koni inserts is the only affordable way to get DA shocks and stay legal in street. Unless there are other products out there we're just not familiar with? I'm planning to contact a couple other shops to see what they can fab up, too; already emailed one, but they haven't got back to me yet. Otherwise, if anyone sees old struts for sale or someone talking about their brand new coilovers, could you please PM me about it? ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Another option I've looked into is non-adjustable Bilstein B6(HD) with custom valving, but I'd really like to be able to actually adjust and tune the car's handling myself.
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Another option I've looked into is non-adjustable Bilstein B6(HD) with custom valving, but I'd really like to be able to actually adjust and tune the car's handling myself.
#257
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I have a question about SS. You can change on swabar does it have to be factory like a GT3 or can you go aftermarket? Plus what about the end links? can they be adjustable?
#258
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13.7 ANTI-ROLL (SWAY) BARS
A. Substitution, addition, or removal of a single anti-roll bar and supporting
hardware (brackets, endlinks, bushings, etc.) is permitted. The
use of any bushing material is permitted. A bushing may be implemented
as a bearing.
B. Substitution, addition, or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other
purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
C. No modification to the body, frame, or other components to accommodate
anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed except for the
drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Non-standard lateral members
which connect between the brackets for the bar are not permitted.
A. Substitution, addition, or removal of a single anti-roll bar and supporting
hardware (brackets, endlinks, bushings, etc.) is permitted. The
use of any bushing material is permitted. A bushing may be implemented
as a bearing.
B. Substitution, addition, or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other
purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
C. No modification to the body, frame, or other components to accommodate
anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed except for the
drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Non-standard lateral members
which connect between the brackets for the bar are not permitted.
Examples of what's not OK is changing more than one swaybar, cutting holes or notching frames for clearance, or using the alternate mounting allowance for alternate purposes, eg chassis bracing.
#260
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Thanks for posting your experience. I've always thought the gearing was a killer, which is why I consider a later car with PDK the only reasonable starting point (for AS). (So you can get good use out of 1st gear without getting killed on changes up and down into 2nd.)
Did you have a big front bar to help the transients and limit roll? And what wheels and tires were you running, if I may ask?
Did you have a big front bar to help the transients and limit roll? And what wheels and tires were you running, if I may ask?
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#261
Drifting
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I ran a gt3 bar, and CCW wheels at the max offset. Stock shocks, but had looked at AST's and Motons. MCS would be the choice now. The car felt ok, but was pretty soft, hard on tires with no camber, and just was not close to the competition (1-2+ sec off on 60). It needed top shelf shocks and much more tuning, none of which would resolve the tire abuse
It could trophy competitive, but I don't think winning.
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Q. Do 986 and 987 use the exact same fitment struts? Could I put a set on my 986S now and swap it to a 987 if/when I buy one?
What does a $4k set of MCS do that a $1k set of Konis doesn't?
#262
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There's a theory, to which I subscribe, that there's a right damper setup for your suspension. Any fiddling away from that just makes you slower.
#263
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Going by what I've read on the internet, versus anything I was able to discern myself despite having owned Motons and JRZs, and run on Ohlins and monotube Konis: capability for more low speed compression damping, more repeatable adjustments, and more consistent shock forces across the four shocks.
Maybe I just suck, but I didn't find running on high-end shocks to be a revelatory experience (although I never did back-to-back comparisons), so my current car has off-the-shelf Koni Yellows.
Maybe I just suck, but I didn't find running on high-end shocks to be a revelatory experience (although I never did back-to-back comparisons), so my current car has off-the-shelf Koni Yellows.
#264
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$4k is a a good price. ASTs and Motons are more than that. I felt a noticeable improvement when I first drove a car with basic Penske doubles. Those were not known for very effective low speed damping, but still worked well, much better control and planted feeling when doing extreme maneuvers. Then I put some used motons on my STR miata, and it was another leap in control, and adjustability. You can feel a single click change, and noticeably alter the car to suit the course or driving style. In a tuner class where you can adjust spring and bar, it is not as critical I think. But it still allows you to make quick, on the spot changes, which may salvage 1 run out of 3. In a stock class, it is a a powerful tool, as you have gas pressure, and damping to fine tune the car balance.
#265
Burning Brakes
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I know Stan and Stephen know this but I've seen the mistake so I'll just throw it out there, MCS can be two things. Recently it's Motion Control Systems = guy(s) from old Moton before AST bought them new company and good stuff. MCS can also mean Moton ClubSports which are not the same thing.
Biggest thing I can say about shocks, you really are paying for 2 things, quality and valving. If either is off, it doesnt matter. MCS is known to get the valving right and thats the attraction to them. Penskes are an excellent product but if you don't have them setup by someone who know what to set them to for your application, you might as well have Tokicos.
TomR
Biggest thing I can say about shocks, you really are paying for 2 things, quality and valving. If either is off, it doesnt matter. MCS is known to get the valving right and thats the attraction to them. Penskes are an excellent product but if you don't have them setup by someone who know what to set them to for your application, you might as well have Tokicos.
TomR
#266
Drifting
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Thanks, guys. And yeah, I meant Motion Control Systems, which I've heard really good things about. I'm still having trouble justifying dropping that kind of scratch on shocks, though. Koni 8611: $1400 for the set; MCS 2-way non remote: $3500. If it's a huge difference in performance it may be worth it, but just feels like diminishing return territory and that I might be better off taking that $2k of savings and investing in part of it in evo school and the rest of it in making my wife happy so I can keep doing things like blow $1400 on shocks.
http://www.motioncontrolsuspension.c...ts/prices.html
Are struts interchangeable between 986 & 987? If I picked up a set for my 986 now, could I transfer it to a 987 next year?
http://www.motioncontrolsuspension.c...ts/prices.html
Are struts interchangeable between 986 & 987? If I picked up a set for my 986 now, could I transfer it to a 987 next year?
#267
Three Wheelin'
#268
Drifting
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What sort of ballpark would you expect a set of motion controls that sold new for $3500 go for after 5 years? That's a serious part of my consideration, too.
Just how badly will a well sorted out 987.2S be outclassed in SS by Lotus, GT3 and Z06? Given index maker's figures the fastest car in SS is only somewhere between 0.7 and 1.5 seconds faster than the fastest BS car around a 60 second course; is the difference between these cars really that small? I'm not in the hunt for a national championship jacket, and this is going to be my daily driver; I'd rather drive a car I love and overcome a few tenths difference than a car I'm meh about but competitive. But I don't want to dump my heart, soul and wallet into this and end up a full second down.
Just how badly will a well sorted out 987.2S be outclassed in SS by Lotus, GT3 and Z06? Given index maker's figures the fastest car in SS is only somewhere between 0.7 and 1.5 seconds faster than the fastest BS car around a 60 second course; is the difference between these cars really that small? I'm not in the hunt for a national championship jacket, and this is going to be my daily driver; I'd rather drive a car I love and overcome a few tenths difference than a car I'm meh about but competitive. But I don't want to dump my heart, soul and wallet into this and end up a full second down.
#269
Three Wheelin'
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With respect to PAX analysis between classes it's hard to give a single answer....there are so many variables, course design (tight vs. open), track surface, ambient temperature, etc.
For example, if you look at the 2013 SCCA Nationals, SS was won by a GT3 with a long course time of 72.37 sec. and a short course time of 53.15 sec., while BS was won by a S2000 (the only car running in the class) with corresponding times of 75.74/54.20 sec.
#270
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And if you look at AS, you will see that I was thoroughly beaten by corvettes in my 996. now that stock is street, all the corvettes got bumped down a class so now AS has z06 to contend with and SS has every insane corvette imagineable. I'm co driving a MR2 this year since the SCCA hates Porsches so much. I will cry every time I touch the gas pedal.