scca stock class becoming street class!
09-08-2013, 06:45 PM
#136
Take a look at the A stock results and you'll see how poorly the 996 does against the c5 Vettes...on old BFG R1s....with my crappy driving. If I go again next year, I am bringing a couple sets of new A6s. I brought a set of take offs home to try out. 255 fronts and 315 rears like the 996 gt3 guys were running.
So, did you have fun? I'm thinking about going next year, but I'd definitely be a bottom dweller in ultra-competitive STR. Curious if the experience is worth the cash / time outlay.
09-08-2013, 07:09 PM
#137
How you place on your first trip to Nationals should really be a secondary consideration. It's hard to really be prepared for it -- I'd say the difference in intensity and competition between Nationals and a typical national-level event (i.e. Tour or Pro) is bigger than the difference between a typical national-level event and a typical regional event in a medium or large region. Unless you're consistently near the top of heavily-contested national-level events, you shouldn't go to Nats expecting to do well. Instead, just go to take it all in and enjoy the experience.
Last edited by PedalFaster; 09-08-2013 at 11:45 PM.
09-08-2013, 08:18 PM
#138
Burning Brakes
981 lighter, stiffer, lower, big increase in front track... seems like it should be faster. I think you must buy it.
09-08-2013, 11:15 PM
#139
Race Car
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Everyone who autocrosses relatively regularly should go to Nationals at least once. It's autocross Mecca -- seeing the enormity of the site, the fastest drivers all in one place, and the logistics of having three courses running continuously all day long for four consecutive days is mind-blowing.
How you place on your first trip to Nationals should really be a secondary consideration. It's hard to really be prepared for it -- I'd say the difference in intensity and competition between Nationals and a typical national-level event (i.e. Tour or Pro) is bigger than the difference between a typical national-level event and a typical regional event in a medium or large region. Unless you're consistently near the top of heavily-contested national-level events, you shouldn't go to Nats expecting to go well. Instead, just go to take it all in and enjoy the experience.
How you place on your first trip to Nationals should really be a secondary consideration. It's hard to really be prepared for it -- I'd say the difference in intensity and competition between Nationals and a typical national-level event (i.e. Tour or Pro) is bigger than the difference between a typical national-level event and a typical regional event in a medium or large region. Unless you're consistently near the top of heavily-contested national-level events, you shouldn't go to Nats expecting to go well. Instead, just go to take it all in and enjoy the experience.
My friend Chris placed 8th in STR this year codriving someone else's Miata. It is definitely competitive in the ST classes!
I will probably go back next year after putting some tuning into my setup, but I still won't show up with $8k+ dampers or data acquisition or any of that stuff.
It was fun but phew how exhausting. Definitely a whole new ball game even compared to the national tour events.
09-13-2013, 04:57 AM
#142
I'd put the information from edfishjr's post above into a letter to the SAC / SEB, and include links to any other authoritative refences you can find stating that the actual rear wheel width was 10". It's likely within the SAC / SEB's ability to independently do the same thing edfishjr did, at which point I'd expect a clarification from them.
09-13-2013, 11:52 AM
#143
Drifting
No, but I'm about to write a letter requesting clarification of this rule. I'm going to recommend the following language (in italics) be added to 13.5. Clarifying with "may be removed" should cover both directions: both allowing upgrade of packages without having to install otherwise useless wiring harnesses and control modules, and to allow deinstallation of electronic shocks without having to remove them. I believe it's fully within the spirit of the rule and the spirit of the class. Since there is so little weight involved, it's unlikely to be abused.
13.5.A.5. Electronically controlled shocks may not be used on vehicles not originally equipped with such units. Vehicles originally equipped with electronically controlled shocks may use the standard parts or non-electronically controlled alternative shocks subject to all the requirements of Section 13.5. Non-standard electronically controlled shocks are not allowed. If electronically controlled shocks are replaced with non-electronically controlled shocks, components of the electronically controlled shock system that serve no other purpose; including electronic control modules and wiring; may be removed.
09-13-2013, 12:58 PM
#145
I was actually referring to a letter about the ambiguous 19" wheel widths (the ordering guide saying 11" when cars were actually shipped with 10s). 
As for your shock letter, I'd also add control switches (or some better term to describe the switches in the cockpit which probably cost hundreds of dollars) to your proposed wording:
I'm not convinced this request will fly, but it can't hurt to try. You might also want to elaborate on your reasons for asking, namely that otherwise the Caymans and Boxsters to have become extremely hard to find.
As for your shock letter, I'd also add control switches (or some better term to describe the switches in the cockpit which probably cost hundreds of dollars) to your proposed wording:
13.5.A.5. Electronically controlled shocks may not be used on vehicles not originally equipped with such units. Vehicles originally equipped with electronically controlled shocks may use the standard parts or non-electronically controlled alternative shocks subject to all the requirements of Section 13.5. Non-standard electronically controlled shocks are not allowed. If electronically controlled shocks are replaced with non-electronically controlled shocks, components of the electronically controlled shock system that serve no other purpose (including electronic control modules, wiring, and control switches) may be removed.
09-13-2013, 01:47 PM
#146
Drifting
I was actually referring to a letter about the ambiguous 19" wheel widths (the ordering guide saying 11" when cars were actually shipped with 10s).
As for your shock letter, I'd also add control switches (or some better term to describe the switches in the cockpit which probably cost hundreds of dollars) to your proposed wording:
I'm not convinced this request will fly, but it can't hurt to try. You might also want to elaborate on your reasons for asking, namely that otherwise the Caymans and Boxsters to have become extremely hard to find.
As for your shock letter, I'd also add control switches (or some better term to describe the switches in the cockpit which probably cost hundreds of dollars) to your proposed wording:
I'm not convinced this request will fly, but it can't hurt to try. You might also want to elaborate on your reasons for asking, namely that otherwise the Caymans and Boxsters to have become extremely hard to find.
I had switches in my first draft, but misc switches are already covered explicitly under the comfort/convenience rule, so it seemed redundant. Wouldn't be a bad idea to take any ambiguity away, though; I'll put it back in my suggested wording.
Good point on the difficult-to-find-options; I'll add that, too. I think enough SAC/SEB guys saw the forum discussions that they know where this is coming from, it just needs to be formally submitted. I'd even be content with a "or equal" rule for dead-weight components if I didn't think it would be rife for abuse. I mean, I could spend a bunch of money on an unconnected OEM switch, or for fifty cents, I could glue two quarters behind the panel with the same performance impact. I do fear allowances like that open the door for creative abuses, though.
09-13-2013, 03:50 PM
#147
I fear if we approach them at this point with the present evidence that documented factory wheels showed up in undocumented sizes and lack of proof that any of the larger wheels were fully documented factory options, we'll be stuck with 8". We need to find hard proof. I don't think we should write that letter yet.
I'll write a letter this weekend, and post it to this forum.
Yep -- if the letter gets rejected, that will be why.
09-14-2013, 03:38 AM
#148
Letter 12394:
Hello,
I’d like to request an official clarification on legal 19” wheel widths for an A Stock 2007 – 2008 Porsche Cayman S. I believe, based on extensive research, that a 19” x 8.5” front wheel / 19” x 10” rear wheel combination was orderable in both 2007 and 2008, and is thus legal, but Porsche’s official documentation is self-contradictory and thus unclear.
Here’s what Porsche’s official documentation says (links to all of the referenced documents can be found at the end of this message):
2007 – Five 19" wheel options are listed in the order guide: the Carrera S wheel (option code 403), the Turbo wheel (option code 404), the Carrera Classic wheel (option code 405), the Sport Design wheel (option code 407), and the Carrera Sport wheel (option code XRR). No wheel widths are listed in the order guide. The manual lists only one 19” wheel size combination: 8” front / 9.5” rear.
2008 – The same five 19” wheel options as were available in 2007 are listed. This year, however, the order guide lists wheel widths. The Carrera S wheel is listed as 8” front / 9.5” rear. The Turbo, Carrera Classic, and Sport Design wheels are listed as 8” front / 11” rear. The Carrera Sport wheel is listed as 8.5” front / 11.5” rear. This contradicts the Tequipment accessory catalog, which lists all of the aforementioned wheels as 8” front / 9.5” rear except for the Carrera Sport, which is listed as 8.5” front / 10” rear.
It’s fairly clear that the 8” front / 9.5” rear combination is legal for both years of Cayman, as all of the documents list at least one 19” wheel as available in those widths. Various official Porsche documents list 8” front / 11” rear, 8.5” front / 10” rear, and 8.5” front / 11.5” rear as legal combinations as well.
It is my belief that, of these three additional combinations, only the 8.5” front / 10” rear combination was actually available, and that the listings for the other two combinations were errors. This opinion is corroborated by many resources on the internet, perhaps the most authoritative of which is the Planet-9.com Cayman wheel FAQ here: http://www.planet-9.com/faq.php?faq=...x#faq_caywheel.
While researching this issue, SCCA member Edward Fisher went to a Porsche dealer and found a Cayman that they’d sold with the Carrera Sport (XRR) wheel option. The wheels were marked as 8.5” front / 10” rear, which they verified by measuring them: https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...l#post10736845.
Mr. Fisher also apparently took photos documenting the Carrera Sport wheels’ width: https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...l#post10738922. I don’t have access to these photos, though.
It would be helpful if you could issue an official opinion on which wheel widths are legal for 2007 and 2008 Caymans.
Thanks,
Steve
---
Links to cited resources:
2006 Cayman order guide
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=45
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=25
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...order-guide-us
2006 Boxster manual
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...-owners-manual
2007 Cayman order guide
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=66
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...007-caymans-us
2008 Cayman order guide
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=130
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...23-my08-cayman
2008 Cayman Tequipment catalog
http://files1.porsche.com/filestore....letype=default
I’d like to request an official clarification on legal 19” wheel widths for an A Stock 2007 – 2008 Porsche Cayman S. I believe, based on extensive research, that a 19” x 8.5” front wheel / 19” x 10” rear wheel combination was orderable in both 2007 and 2008, and is thus legal, but Porsche’s official documentation is self-contradictory and thus unclear.
Here’s what Porsche’s official documentation says (links to all of the referenced documents can be found at the end of this message):
2007 – Five 19" wheel options are listed in the order guide: the Carrera S wheel (option code 403), the Turbo wheel (option code 404), the Carrera Classic wheel (option code 405), the Sport Design wheel (option code 407), and the Carrera Sport wheel (option code XRR). No wheel widths are listed in the order guide. The manual lists only one 19” wheel size combination: 8” front / 9.5” rear.
2008 – The same five 19” wheel options as were available in 2007 are listed. This year, however, the order guide lists wheel widths. The Carrera S wheel is listed as 8” front / 9.5” rear. The Turbo, Carrera Classic, and Sport Design wheels are listed as 8” front / 11” rear. The Carrera Sport wheel is listed as 8.5” front / 11.5” rear. This contradicts the Tequipment accessory catalog, which lists all of the aforementioned wheels as 8” front / 9.5” rear except for the Carrera Sport, which is listed as 8.5” front / 10” rear.
It’s fairly clear that the 8” front / 9.5” rear combination is legal for both years of Cayman, as all of the documents list at least one 19” wheel as available in those widths. Various official Porsche documents list 8” front / 11” rear, 8.5” front / 10” rear, and 8.5” front / 11.5” rear as legal combinations as well.
It is my belief that, of these three additional combinations, only the 8.5” front / 10” rear combination was actually available, and that the listings for the other two combinations were errors. This opinion is corroborated by many resources on the internet, perhaps the most authoritative of which is the Planet-9.com Cayman wheel FAQ here: http://www.planet-9.com/faq.php?faq=...x#faq_caywheel.
While researching this issue, SCCA member Edward Fisher went to a Porsche dealer and found a Cayman that they’d sold with the Carrera Sport (XRR) wheel option. The wheels were marked as 8.5” front / 10” rear, which they verified by measuring them: https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...l#post10736845.
Mr. Fisher also apparently took photos documenting the Carrera Sport wheels’ width: https://rennlist.com/forums/autocros...l#post10738922. I don’t have access to these photos, though.
It would be helpful if you could issue an official opinion on which wheel widths are legal for 2007 and 2008 Caymans.
Thanks,
Steve
---
Links to cited resources:
2006 Cayman order guide
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=45
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=25
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...order-guide-us
2006 Boxster manual
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...-owners-manual
2007 Cayman order guide
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=66
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...007-caymans-us
2008 Cayman order guide
http://www.planet-9.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=130
http://www.renntech.org/forums/files...23-my08-cayman
2008 Cayman Tequipment catalog
http://files1.porsche.com/filestore....letype=default
09-14-2013, 03:39 AM
#149
Whoops -- I forgot to remove the 2006 links from my letter before submitting it. A previous draft of the letter also listed the 2006 options, but I removed it because the Carrera Sport (XRR) wheel wasn't listed as an orderable option in the 2006 order guide, and the Carrera Sport's the only wheel that was available as an 8.5" front.
09-15-2013, 03:08 AM
#150
Everyone who autocrosses relatively regularly should go to Nationals at least once. It's autocross Mecca -- seeing the enormity of the site, the fastest drivers all in one place, and the logistics of having three courses running continuously all day long for four consecutive days is mind-blowing.
Keep in mind that it looks like it was filmed early in the week, before the paddock really filled up – it gets a lot busier and more crowded than is shown.
If you’ve never been to Nationals before… you should go.