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Agree, the more info we can have here in the future with a VIN attached to it, the better for future buyers. Imagine searching the VIN and saving yourself the back and forth with scheduling a PPI, a deposit, etc, to find out it isn't what you're looking for.
There's a reason why the chopped the price. My friend did a PPI and passed on it. Ask the dealer and see if they will tell you.
I'm having a hard time believing this car doesn't have some paint work. Look at the rockers. I have seen 10K mile GT3 where this area was completely peppered already. This one doesn't have a mark. I suppose it's possible it had PPF on that area previously but overall the paint looks suspiciously perfect.
I'm having a hard time believing this car doesn't have some paint work. Look at the rockers. I have seen 10K mile GT3 where this area was completely peppered already. This one doesn't have a mark. I suppose it's possible it had PPF on that area previously but overall the paint looks suspiciously perfect.
Great observation. With it looking that clean, I'd almost say it has to have paintwork considering it doesn't have clear film over that area and only the area above it. Some people will do the extended rocker panel piece in clear film, but that car probably doesn't have it. Especially when these cars came out, people were not PPF'ing that area with the larger piece and extended rocker, or at least not as much.
I'm having a hard time believing this car doesn't have some paint work. Look at the rockers. I have seen 10K mile GT3 where this area was completely peppered already. This one doesn't have a mark. I suppose it's possible it had PPF on that area previously but overall the paint looks suspiciously perfect.
Can't say that I have seen many red ones come up for sale. The one that stood out to me most was a red 997.2 GT3 that Switchcars had in earlier this year with similar miles, maybe 67k, tons of mods, also had paintwork and that one had an asking of $89k or so. The mods maybe added a bit of value, but not considerable value, I would say, besides maybe the buckets. First, finding a 997.2 GT3 for sub $90k is not exactly easy. They are going to have some miles on them. Most are $100k+. Not saying that most can't spend the additional $10k to get a lower miles car, but for the person that wants the updated interior, the larger engine, but wants to spend 997.1 GT3 money, then a higher mileage .2 may be the way to go. I guess at some point you have to say, this is my max that I'm spending on a car, otherwise you will end up buying a 997.2RS 4.0 if you keep increasing budget.
As far as PCCB's, my advice to most is that if you're buying a car with PCCB's and you get them inspected and it doesn't pass, then you should negotiate accordingly, mentioning to the seller that you're probably going to take a $5k hit by not having the PCCB's with the car. Not sure if that is an exact figure, but you get my point. From there, you can swap over to Girodisc or go with surface transform ceramics which are $12k for a full set all around, then add on pads. I wouldn't want to tell someone that they shouldn't buy a car at all because it needs PCCB's. That means that car is never going to get sold and I do think there is an appropriate price for almost every car on the market. Regarding LSD it depends how it was driven. If it was track miles, it was probably not working anymore way before 10k miles. If it was mostly street driving or highway driving, I'm guessing the LSD would benefit from a rebuild in the future, but it may still be working? That is just a guess. I would want a PPI to reveal the condition of the LSD. I'm not saying that $90k is what someone should pay, someone needs to pay whatever they feel comfortable with given the condition of the car after a proper inspection. But what I am saying is that if the only issue is the PCCB's, the car is not going to be priced at $80k due to the PCCB's and miles, I'm guessing mid to upper $80s is still what it would go for. Someone else that has more knowledge on this can comment.
Also, I will say that I think every GT3 on the market has $3-5k in deferred maintenance. At least in my definition. Car either will need brakes soon, has 7 year old tires, will need a major service with plugs and coils, should have coolant lines (not really maintenance, but I think people should eventually consider doing it for peace of mind). Not many GT3 owners are over maintaining there cars, especially those driving on the street from my experience. It's the track guys that are doing oil changes every 3 track days, flushing brake fluid 2x a year, etc.
Regarding the yellow 997.1 GT3 on BAT, that one has exceeded what I guessed it would sell for/bid for. What I will say is that one transaction does not dictate the market (I think Doug originally mentioned that, so I took it from him). I think that someone really wants a yellow 997.1 GT3 and is willing to pay in the $70s for it. Not saying anyone should be paying that much for that car, but we also watched a Sharkwerks 3.9 build with less than 30k miles sell for $100k a couple months back and a 997.1 GT3 with like 2k miles not even get to reserve at $107k. So BAT is a bit strange. If two people really want a car, they will bid it up way higher than it should go.
I have not really commented much on the BAT auctions. I don't think that any of us are going to make or break someones decision to buy a car or not buy a car, but I am sure that there are a select few bidders that go onto Rennlist and see what the conversation is about. I don't want to be the person that destroys someone's auction telling someone not to bid or I also don't want to be the person that overinflates values saying that someone should be paying $75k (with buyers premium) for that GT3. I watched a CLK63 Black earlier this year sell for $110k or so on BAT that had normal miles, it was a $70k car all day long, but it sold for way more than it should have.
Just some of my thoughts, you bring up great points for sure, just figured I would respond.
That car had high range over revs. Currently sale pending. While the over revs were many hours ago and someone shouldn't have many concerns most likely with the engine, that DME report will be with the car forever and the next buyer will always want a discount on it, so I am guessing that is why it is priced lower to account for the DME.
I do enjoy hearing the other side so thanks. My point was that spending another $10K, on top of the nearly $90K one will be spending for this red car with smoked PCCBs, buys a car with half the mileage, possibly less, in better shape. I'm not talking about stepping up to 4.0RS money here. Sure it may not be red, but it won't be **** brown either, and ultimately, this car looks good in mostly any color it came in. Had this red car been priced in the low to mid 70s, I could see the value. Not at this price though. Whoever buys it, will dump money into it and still have a high mileage car. The $10k-$15K savings up front is laughable when you'll blow that just getting the front brakes squared away properly. Most cars in the six figure range do not need much work, and many are very well kept.
The BAT car is beyond laughable so not even worth discussing.
Lastly, i know there are some high mileage owners here so hopefully you don't find my posts upsetting - to each their own. Notice i didn't say high mileage cars are garbage, because I'm aware they're just fine. My argument revolves around the pricing, and whether the high mileage discount is sufficient for one to consider such a car over a low mileage car. Carry on.
Believe it or not, in the enthusiast car business, I've actually met a lot of good and honest dealers. The low volume guys, in particular, have too much to lose by getting a bad reputation from misrepresenting cars. I have no experience with this particular seller though, so your comment may be perfectly valid.
I do enjoy hearing the other side so thanks. My point was that spending another $10K, on top of the nearly $90K one will be spending for this red car with smoked PCCBs, buys a car with half the mileage, possibly less, in better shape. I'm not talking about stepping up to 4.0RS money here. Sure it may not be red, but it won't be **** brown either, and ultimately, this car looks good in mostly any color it came in. Had this red car been priced in the low to mid 70s, I could see the value. Not at this price though. Whoever buys it, will dump money into it and still have a high mileage car. The $10k-$15K savings up front is laughable when you'll blow that just getting the front brakes squared away properly. Most cars in the six figure range do not need much work, and many are very well kept.
The BAT car is beyond laughable so not even worth discussing.
Lastly, i know there are some high mileage owners here so hopefully you don't find my posts upsetting - to each their own. Notice i didn't say high mileage cars are garbage, because I'm aware they're just fine. My argument revolves around the pricing, and whether the high mileage discount is sufficient for one to consider such a car over a low mileage car. Carry on.
Regarding my 4.0 comment, of course, I was more just taking it to the extreme, that when I was looking, I originally had a budget of around $85k in mind, then I realized that probably wouldn't get me the car I wanted, so I went to $90k, I ended up spending slightly more than that to get the exact car I wanted, but ultimately it's so easy to continue saying to just increase budget. I would personally rather spend more money for a nicer car and I did, but I also realize that not everyone has that same mentality. Some people are shopping on price alone (wouldn't recommend it but people can and do), some do not want a car that is perfect since they feel they can drive it more, even though my mentality is buy the nicest car you can and then drive it as much as you want. But I also don't want everyone thinking they need to buy a 10k mile or even 20k mile car in order to enjoy a GT3. But I totally get your point that you can spend a bit more and get a nicer car, and I largely do agree. I bought a white GT3 in good condition because I buy cars based on condition not color or options. I bought a 997.2 C2S based on options and wasn't as happy with it since the condition wasn't what I wanted. So now I buy 100% based on condition, not based on miles, number of owners or options. I buy the best car I can within my budget based on condition.
Also my comment regarding maintenance is mostly due to having a dealer near me that specializes in high end cars. They have a huge collection of Ferrari's. Someone I know just bought a manual 430 spider from them with 4k miles, this past summer. Not sure if the tires are original (didn't look at the car in person yet), but they have no receipts (as far as I know) regarding when fluids were last done, etc. The transmission didn't feel right on it to him and he thinks it's all original fluids, except the oil. My point is that this was a $200k+ Ferrari (manuals go for that much) that probably needs $5-10k to get it up to a drivable condition with fresh fluids, plugs, coils, etc. I would be doing plugs and coils just on time alone. Then you have the additional seals that may need to be replaced from sitting. I've seen them get in $200-300k cars or higher, often with original tires, who knows when any fluid was done last, etc.
But you're 100% right, miles impact value. I typically go to BMW M cars to compare to Porsche's since that's another brand I'm passionate about. An E39 M5 from Enthusiast Auto Group with 50k miles is going to sell for $50k. They have one currently with 3k miles for near $200k. They had one with 9k miles for $150k. But if you start loading miles onto these cars, lets say 100-200k miles, the cars are worth sub $20k. It's a huge determining factor on value, even though I think cars should be priced based on maintenance and condition more than miles.
Again, not trying to argue, just giving my point from my experience. Others will have different experiences.
Great information and discussion in this thread, thank you everyone and especially the ones messaging me with information. I received info on the 997.2 Guards Red I posted about and am still considering it.
To answer the question about higher mileage or storied examples, I feel buying this red one at say $81-83k is all the money for it. $10k may not seem like a lot to get a better example, but I have a severe soft spot for guards red. It holds sentimental value to me of when I first fell in love with 911s as a kid. Being able to get into a .2 GT3 with all the right color/options/story, is all the more reason to consider a car that is storied, paint work previously and/or higher mileage and driving the hell out of it. Also worth mentioning, I have access to really good financing rates for vehicles 10 or less, @2.75%. However, outside of 10 years, that'll go to 5-6% easily. Knowing what I know about this particular GT3, it doesn't scare me. Accidents/paint work in general dont bother me if they're repaired right and I get into the car at the right price.
Great information and discussion in this thread, thank you everyone and especially the ones messaging me with information. I received info on the 997.2 Guards Red I posted about and am still considering it.
To answer the question about higher mileage or storied examples, I feel buying this red one at say $81-83k is all the money for it. $10k may not seem like a lot to get a better example, but I have a severe soft spot for guards red. It holds sentimental value to me of when I first fell in love with 911s as a kid. Being able to get into a .2 GT3 with all the right color/options/story, is all the more reason to consider a car that is storied, paint work previously and/or higher mileage and driving the hell out of it. Also worth mentioning, I have access to really good financing rates for vehicles 10 or less, @2.75%. However, outside of 10 years, that'll go to 5-6% easily. Knowing what I know about this particular GT3, it doesn't scare me. Accidents/paint work in general dont bother me if they're repaired right and I get into the car at the right price.
hey no worries man. I actually enjoyed the conversation and wasn't at all trying to discourage you from considering the car. I was more so interested in the rationale for why someone would pay almost $90K for it vs another with a lot less miles and wear, and possibly less stories for not much more. Best of luck with it if you end up owning it!
Great information and discussion in this thread, thank you everyone and especially the ones messaging me with information. I received info on the 997.2 Guards Red I posted about and am still considering it.
To answer the question about higher mileage or storied examples, I feel buying this red one at say $81-83k is all the money for it. $10k may not seem like a lot to get a better example, but I have a severe soft spot for guards red. It holds sentimental value to me of when I first fell in love with 911s as a kid. Being able to get into a .2 GT3 with all the right color/options/story, is all the more reason to consider a car that is storied, paint work previously and/or higher mileage and driving the hell out of it. Also worth mentioning, I have access to really good financing rates for vehicles 10 or less, @2.75%. However, outside of 10 years, that'll go to 5-6% easily. Knowing what I know about this particular GT3, it doesn't scare me. Accidents/paint work in general dont bother me if they're repaired right and I get into the car at the right price.
Penfed is 3.74% for 60 months for a used car. They do not care about age of car unless you go to 72 months, in which case you can only finance 2015-2020 cars.
12-03-2020 | 04:46 PM
