991 GT3 - Dealer Sales Pitch
#121
Race Director
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Any kind of computerized active suspension manipulation, like PDCC, would certainly be verboten. 4-wheel steering systems typically are also computer controlled at the rear since the wheels have to turn in different directions depending on speed. I wouldn't think they'd be allowed either.
#122
Rennlist Member
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If this car will be offered as rumored, add Porsche to the list of sports car manufacturers losing the plot.
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#123
Drifting
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Any kind of computerized active suspension manipulation, like PDCC, would certainly be verboten. 4-wheel steering systems typically are also computer controlled at the rear since the wheels have to turn in different directions depending on speed. I wouldn't think they'd be allowed either.
Are you being sarcastic? If this new "GT3" is what Porsche had in mind for their "hardcore" customers, then it is obviously disappointing. A little market niche is dying..
#124
Race Director
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![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
The issue isn't that active suspension and electronic aids make racing less enjoyable to watch, it's that they make it more, and for some too, expensive to compete.
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Last edited by Mike in CA; 02-08-2013 at 08:07 PM.
#125
Nordschleife Master
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i really like all i have heard about it. sounds great and the 991 chassis is amazing, i think it will shine even more with the power and suspension of the GT.
but i hope their are less computer interference.. the 991 felt much more disconnected than 997 but i assume thats safe guards built into normal vehicles for safety/ease of use.
but i hope their are less computer interference.. the 991 felt much more disconnected than 997 but i assume thats safe guards built into normal vehicles for safety/ease of use.
#126
Drifting
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I wasn't making a value judgement on it one way or the other, just stating that current GT regs wouldn't allow it. Since you bring it up, though, I recently read an article on Adrian Newey in Motorsport magazine. He knows a bit about racing as probably the best car designer in F1 history, and in his opinion, the "active era" of F1 in the early '90's (by the end of '93 they had 4 channel ABS, electronic steering, traction control, active ride, etc.) was a "great time" in his words, and he was very sorry to see it pass. Prost, Senna, Hill, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Michael Andretti, et al made for some fairly entertaining racing. Maybe it was before your time.
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
The issue isn't that active suspension and electronic aids make racing less enjoyable to watch, it's that they make it more, and for some too, expensive to compete.
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
The issue isn't that active suspension and electronic aids make racing less enjoyable to watch, it's that they make it more, and for some too, expensive to compete.
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
And yeah, it was before my time to watch those races live.
#127
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I read the interview with Newey, as well. He's not a driver, he's an engineering/design savant. Those cars are still amazing, but I like to see things that place more emphasis on the driver. That said, if all of that tech can work throughout a 24 hour race, then it can certainly work on the street, provided the manufacturer has the ability to prevent obselescence.
And yeah, it was before my time to watch those races live.
And yeah, it was before my time to watch those races live.
Newey can drive. And has. He may not be the best driver in the world, but he certainly can compete.
Tread those waters lightly man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_...rts_activities
#128
Burning Brakes
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Uuuuh.
Newey can drive. And has. He may not be the best driver in the world, but he certainly can compete.
Tread those waters lightly man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_...rts_activities
Newey can drive. And has. He may not be the best driver in the world, but he certainly can compete.
Tread those waters lightly man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_...rts_activities
#129
Drifting
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Uuuuh.
Newey can drive. And has. He may not be the best driver in the world, but he certainly can compete.
Tread those waters lightly man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_...rts_activities
Newey can drive. And has. He may not be the best driver in the world, but he certainly can compete.
Tread those waters lightly man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_...rts_activities
I think the point G89 was making is that Newey’s admiration for computer-controlled, techno-wizardry is based on his perspective as an engineer, not as a driver. But you’re correct that he can certainly drive. He and Martin Brundle recently drove a vintage Jag to victory at Goodwood. As far as I’m aware, it didn’t have computer-controlled sway bars or electro-mechanical steering (but coming out of Newey’s garage, who can be sure?)
#131
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I wasn't making a value judgement on it one way or the other, just stating that current GT regs wouldn't allow it. Since you bring it up, though, I recently read an article on Adrian Newey in Motorsport magazine. He knows a bit about racing as probably the best car designer in F1 history, and in his opinion, the "active era" of F1 in the early '90's (by the end of '93 they had 4 channel ABS, electronic steering, traction control, active ride, etc.) was a "great time" in his words, and he was very sorry to see it pass. Prost, Senna, Hill, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Michael Andretti, et al made for some fairly entertaining racing. Maybe it was before your time.
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
The issue isn't that active suspension and electronic aids make racing less enjoyable to watch, it's that they make it more, and for some too, expensive to compete.
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
The issue isn't that active suspension and electronic aids make racing less enjoyable to watch, it's that they make it more, and for some too, expensive to compete.
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
The Senna, Prost, Hakkinen time was exactly my F1 time..I was a teenager at that time..even have met 2 F1 drivers, have most F1 autographs form the 90s..this was still when F1 was f1 - not the bs we have today..but were getting off the topic here..
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
#132
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Companies must still assign priorities as to how they will spend limited resources. You can bet that if they have to choose between racing or R&D for profitable new consumer vehicles, they'll choose the latter. It's a fact that many companies dropped racing programs, including Toyota and Honda in F1 in late 2009, due to the financial crises. I'm not saying I know that's why Porsche hasn't developed a DFI GT motor yet, just that things like this are often a lot more complex and political than they appear.
I agree with you completely; I don't fault the Mezger in any way. Historic engine, superb record, but it's time is passing at the top competitive levels, as every racing innovation must eventually. Still it's wonderful to own a car with one and you are lucky to have two! I would simply suggest that it's possible to appreciate the achievements of the Mezger while also appreciating the potential of it's replacement. Having owned Porsches for 30 years, and admired them for longer than that, I'm willing to be positive about the new car.
If we were closer we could share a good French wine and a good Napa Valley or Sonoma one, regardless of which engine shows up in the GT3.![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
I agree with you completely; I don't fault the Mezger in any way. Historic engine, superb record, but it's time is passing at the top competitive levels, as every racing innovation must eventually. Still it's wonderful to own a car with one and you are lucky to have two! I would simply suggest that it's possible to appreciate the achievements of the Mezger while also appreciating the potential of it's replacement. Having owned Porsches for 30 years, and admired them for longer than that, I'm willing to be positive about the new car.
If we were closer we could share a good French wine and a good Napa Valley or Sonoma one, regardless of which engine shows up in the GT3.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
Oh..I love California..and sometimes enjoy a great Cali wine here..
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#133
Race Director
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Hi Mike,
Oh..I love California..and sometimes enjoy a great Cali wine here..
..seems we have to meet up for one of these one day..yes, unfortunately I dont live there..but if I had a choice..I wouldnt know what to choose regarding living location.....southern france/provence-northern Italy..or California ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Oh..I love California..and sometimes enjoy a great Cali wine here..
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
#134
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I was really hoping the 991 GT3 would come into 2014 swinging 500bhp...I almost think they should hold off on the GT3 until they really have something special.
Even the wing design seems half baked but at least they have kept the center exit exhaust and the front center radiator "smiley" vent...
I'm trying to understand how it will be any different than a 991 Carrera S with Aero kit...joking of coarse but slightly concerned.
20" Center Lock wheels too...yet still only a 305 rear?
At least the front tires look to retain a somewhat modern RS 245 section.
http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/01/07/p...n-july-august/
The following photos pretty much sum up what most likely will be publicly released in a few weeks:
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/6.jpg)
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/14.jpg)
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/17.jpg)
Even the wing design seems half baked but at least they have kept the center exit exhaust and the front center radiator "smiley" vent...
I'm trying to understand how it will be any different than a 991 Carrera S with Aero kit...joking of coarse but slightly concerned.
20" Center Lock wheels too...yet still only a 305 rear?
![Frown](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/01/07/p...n-july-august/
The following photos pretty much sum up what most likely will be publicly released in a few weeks:
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/6.jpg)
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/14.jpg)
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/17.jpg)
![](http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/2013-porsche-911-991-gt3-undisguised-in-spain/11.jpg)
Last edited by Xeattle; 02-10-2013 at 06:17 AM.
#135
Rennlist Member
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If 20" wheels and tyres were great for traction, I'm sure they'd be standard fitment on their race cars too... Looks to me that the emphasis is shifting from go to show...