"Flying Dutchman or any of the trained Aero Beetle GT3 boys" vs. FIAT Challenge
03-04-2012, 05:06 PM
#121
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+1 he's been complaining about wings this whole time knowing the Ferrari's produce huge DF via Venturi tunnels.
The F430 Challenge cars ran similar times as cup cars and had no wings but just as much (or more) DF.
Then he sandbags on the price factor as well, what's up with this guy?
Do not under any circumstances drive each others cars, that is foolish.
The F430 Challenge cars ran similar times as cup cars and had no wings but just as much (or more) DF.
Then he sandbags on the price factor as well, what's up with this guy?
Do not under any circumstances drive each others cars, that is foolish.
FYI, a 997 GT3 Cup laps Sebring in 2:07, and in 2 weeks we might see them in the 2:06s. I have 4 years of Ferrari Challenge results in U.S., and I have yet to see the first track where the F430 Challenge beats the 200 lbs lighter and massive downforce 2010+ 997 GT3 Cup.
03-04-2012, 05:14 PM
#122
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Excuses.
All excuses.
Is that all you have?
I guess you are too scared to put on a tire with more than a 140 tread wear rating. You must need the grip of an R compound to keep your skirt down.
Here's some more incentive. I've never been to Sebring. Sure, I've watched a bunch of races there. But driven this track? No. How could you NOT beat me?
All excuses.
Is that all you have?
I guess you are too scared to put on a tire with more than a 140 tread wear rating. You must need the grip of an R compound to keep your skirt down.
Here's some more incentive. I've never been to Sebring. Sure, I've watched a bunch of races there. But driven this track? No. How could you NOT beat me?
Bring your rear-*** heavy forced fed Aero Beetle, and join us at the challenge. I bring my street tires (140 UTQG) and run against your vastly superior car, a car that bone stock beats my Fiat by 8 seconds at the Nurburgring, and modified with 1000Hp like yours, it should be a veryyyy easyyyyy beat down on the Fiat.
03-04-2012, 05:20 PM
#123
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Too much traffic at Sebring with PBOC SuperSolo.
NASA Time Trials is a vastly better option. I have run with them, and the TT group runs their own session. You rarely get to see traffic, as cars are lined up by lap times during the warm-up session.
Also, the South Florida NASA TT drivers are very courteous, so when the see a car behind coming on a flyer lap, they will not only move away, but also leave you the line, something you will never see at PBOC SuperSolo.
Any NASA-TT event should work, I prefer Sebring, because that's where the Aero Beetles have the bigger advantage, everywhere else in South Florida the gap gets closer with the Fiat.
NASA Time Trials is a vastly better option. I have run with them, and the TT group runs their own session. You rarely get to see traffic, as cars are lined up by lap times during the warm-up session.
Also, the South Florida NASA TT drivers are very courteous, so when the see a car behind coming on a flyer lap, they will not only move away, but also leave you the line, something you will never see at PBOC SuperSolo.
Any NASA-TT event should work, I prefer Sebring, because that's where the Aero Beetles have the bigger advantage, everywhere else in South Florida the gap gets closer with the Fiat.
03-04-2012, 05:34 PM
#124
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Fiat dyno graph and dyno run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NKajQTexF9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nLNml9D5i9w
Plenty of Aero Beetle dyno graphs and dyno runs in these forums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NKajQTexF9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nLNml9D5i9w
Plenty of Aero Beetle dyno graphs and dyno runs in these forums.
03-04-2012, 05:35 PM
#125
Three Wheelin'
Fun following along, but I predict 20+ pages of "negotiations" and no action, like that 'VR v Kibort'-thing on the DE&Racing Forum. Wait till the 'areo-beetles' chime in with their 'demands', 'counters' and 'objections'.
lol.
EGOS, EGOs, EGos, Egos, egos, ad infinitum; or in Kurt Vonnegut speak: 'And on and on, and so on,........'
Post a vid if it ever pops-off - I will check back in a month
lol.
EGOS, EGOs, EGos, Egos, egos, ad infinitum; or in Kurt Vonnegut speak: 'And on and on, and so on,........'
Post a vid if it ever pops-off - I will check back in a month
03-04-2012, 06:13 PM
#126
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03-04-2012, 06:15 PM
#127
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Man, this is 
A control driver, a Pro driver in each car for a track session, and the best lap posted by the Pro in each car. This achieves two things: it tells the World which car is better, also how bad my driving sucks, and how amazing the Aero Beetle driver is.
Correct, the difference between the ProDriver lap and the car's owner lap will determine how well the car was driven. It also reduces the risk of me wrecking an Aero Beetle, because I don't know how to drive a car in reverse, or a 911 which is same thing.
However, the Pro driver must be a neutral driver, non-Porsche biased, otherwise the Pro will post sloppy laps in the Aero Beetle, and a smoking super fast lap in the Fiat, so the Aero Beetle owner looks good and the Fiat driver looks like a Rookie. But even in this case, I will have data and video to show the World the under-driving done by the Pro with the Aero Beetle, and a YouTube video named "Professional Race Car Drivers can't drive for ****!!!" is a sure 1,000,000 hits.
Rule: Traqmate data available to everybody, for free analysis, including the Pro driver data, the Aero Beetle magnificent driver data, and yours truly horrific slow inconsistent driver data.
So far, no Aero Beetle boy has stepped up to the challenge: where is Izzone, Reter, Erik, M3EvoMR, GT3DE, Grady, the Greek?
A control driver, a Pro driver in each car for a track session, and the best lap posted by the Pro in each car. This achieves two things: it tells the World which car is better, also how bad my driving sucks, and how amazing the Aero Beetle driver is.
Correct, the difference between the ProDriver lap and the car's owner lap will determine how well the car was driven. It also reduces the risk of me wrecking an Aero Beetle, because I don't know how to drive a car in reverse, or a 911 which is same thing.
However, the Pro driver must be a neutral driver, non-Porsche biased, otherwise the Pro will post sloppy laps in the Aero Beetle, and a smoking super fast lap in the Fiat, so the Aero Beetle owner looks good and the Fiat driver looks like a Rookie. But even in this case, I will have data and video to show the World the under-driving done by the Pro with the Aero Beetle, and a YouTube video named "Professional Race Car Drivers can't drive for ****!!!" is a sure 1,000,000 hits.
Rule: Traqmate data available to everybody, for free analysis, including the Pro driver data, the Aero Beetle magnificent driver data, and yours truly horrific slow inconsistent driver data.
So far, no Aero Beetle boy has stepped up to the challenge: where is Izzone, Reter, Erik, M3EvoMR, GT3DE, Grady, the Greek?
I always benchmark my times against my pro driver at each track event to see how **** I've done for the conditions and setup of the car...
03-04-2012, 06:36 PM
#128
Rad, with 490whp, and arond 2950lbs ... and a far from stock car, with custom shocks and springs, makes the Fiat a faster car, I believe anyone with common sense knows that. We also knows that the running costs and durability is also a known fact. I agree that you drive your car and that's cool, but I'm yet to see a ferrari in one piece after the same abuse our cars go thru. I heard, I read, That guy did it ... no under my own eyes, driving full sessions all day long.
That being said, I'm up to the task. All this bla bla bla of pro driver of the question, too much work.
Straight heads up in Sebring is a better option.
BTW the GT2 would be a great contender power wise. Maybe the car is 500lbs heavier, but the Power to weight ratio should be close.
That being said, I'm up to the task. All this bla bla bla of pro driver of the question, too much work.
Straight heads up in Sebring is a better option.
BTW the GT2 would be a great contender power wise. Maybe the car is 500lbs heavier, but the Power to weight ratio should be close.
03-04-2012, 06:39 PM
#129
Rennlist Member
Man, this is
A control driver, a Pro driver in each car for a track session, and the best lap posted by the Pro in each car. This achieves two things: it tells the World which car is better, also how bad my driving sucks, and how amazing the Aero Beetle driver is.
However, the Pro driver must be a neutral driver, non-Porsche biased, otherwise the Pro will post sloppy laps in the Aero Beetle, and a smoking super fast lap in the Fiat, so the Aero Beetle owner looks good and the Fiat driver looks like a Rookie. But even in this case, I will have data and video to show the World the under-driving done by the Pro with the Aero Beetle, and a YouTube video named "Professional Race Car Drivers can't drive for ****!!!" is a sure 1,000,000 hits.
Rule: Traqmate data available to everybody, for free analysis, including the Pro driver data, the Aero Beetle magnificent driver data, and yours truly horrific slow inconsistent driver data.
A control driver, a Pro driver in each car for a track session, and the best lap posted by the Pro in each car. This achieves two things: it tells the World which car is better, also how bad my driving sucks, and how amazing the Aero Beetle driver is.
However, the Pro driver must be a neutral driver, non-Porsche biased, otherwise the Pro will post sloppy laps in the Aero Beetle, and a smoking super fast lap in the Fiat, so the Aero Beetle owner looks good and the Fiat driver looks like a Rookie. But even in this case, I will have data and video to show the World the under-driving done by the Pro with the Aero Beetle, and a YouTube video named "Professional Race Car Drivers can't drive for ****!!!" is a sure 1,000,000 hits.
Rule: Traqmate data available to everybody, for free analysis, including the Pro driver data, the Aero Beetle magnificent driver data, and yours truly horrific slow inconsistent driver data.
Too much traffic at Sebring with PBOC SuperSolo.
NASA Time Trials is a vastly better option. I have run with them, and the TT group runs their own session. You rarely get to see traffic, as cars are lined up by lap times during the warm-up session.
Also, the South Florida NASA TT drivers are very courteous, so when the see a car behind coming on a flyer lap, they will not only move away, but also leave you the line, something you will never see at PBOC SuperSolo.
Any NASA-TT event should work, I prefer Sebring, because that's where the Aero Beetles have the bigger advantage, everywhere else in South Florida the gap gets closer with the Fiat.
NASA Time Trials is a vastly better option. I have run with them, and the TT group runs their own session. You rarely get to see traffic, as cars are lined up by lap times during the warm-up session.
Also, the South Florida NASA TT drivers are very courteous, so when the see a car behind coming on a flyer lap, they will not only move away, but also leave you the line, something you will never see at PBOC SuperSolo.
Any NASA-TT event should work, I prefer Sebring, because that's where the Aero Beetles have the bigger advantage, everywhere else in South Florida the gap gets closer with the Fiat.
03-04-2012, 07:16 PM
#130
I'd actually like to see both Rad against Reter in their own cars plus a pro driving their car.
I want some dyno charts, Rad keeps saying his car makes less than 400 whp so I wish to see myself
Same brake pads and tire compounds is fair if you ask me. Tires make a big difference as we all know, so this would make the ground a little more even.
Thanks, yeah I found it odd too. So I looked it up I never thought Ferrari could release a car with such little downforce, considering the huge rear under diffuser.
I want some dyno charts, Rad keeps saying his car makes less than 400 whp so I wish to see myself
Same brake pads and tire compounds is fair if you ask me. Tires make a big difference as we all know, so this would make the ground a little more even.
Thanks, yeah I found it odd too. So I looked it up
I never thought Ferrari could release a car with such little downforce, considering the huge rear under diffuser.Fortunately this is also a 997 GT2 forum, that being said, Ferrari HP is Definitely Not a concern, suspension bits, once I have BBB's (***** Bones and Bars) installed this year, suspension parts on the Ferrari are not a concern, the only issue I would have is re tire choice. If we are all running on Cups regardless of the brand, then there is no issue, between cups and slicks there is a significant gain in lap times.
If Sebring is too busy, or too flat, I'm sure we can arrange something at Mosport.
I can assure you Mosport is quite challenging, especially in the Intestinal Fortitude dept.
03-04-2012, 07:18 PM
#131
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Post facts. Where did you find F430 Challenge times as good as the Cup cars? unless you're are talking about the old 3.6 GT3 Cup, your info is kind of misleading.
FYI, a 997 GT3 Cup laps Sebring in 2:07, and in 2 weeks we might see them in the 2:06s. I have 4 years of Ferrari Challenge results in U.S., and I have yet to see the first track where the F430 Challenge beats the 200 lbs lighter and massive downforce 2010+ 997 GT3 Cup.
FYI, a 997 GT3 Cup laps Sebring in 2:07, and in 2 weeks we might see them in the 2:06s. I have 4 years of Ferrari Challenge results in U.S., and I have yet to see the first track where the F430 Challenge beats the 200 lbs lighter and massive downforce 2010+ 997 GT3 Cup.
Plus where is the comprehension, I said SIMILAR NOT FASTER times. And we aren't talking about Leh Keen, Andrew Davis at the wheel of the challenge cars either are we now because aren't their rules no pros allowed in the series? And half of those guys are playing bumper cars anyways so they can never get a clean lap in.
Any more questions?
03-04-2012, 07:33 PM
#132
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Rad,
I'm sure Peter, Randy will chime in when they get back. Obviously I'm one of the slower guys in the DE Cup group, but I take your challenge pending a dyno. Haven't quite forgetton you pulling me by 3+ cars in a 1/8 mile race. Doesn't sound stock to me....
Time for Eddie to get the "claw" out....
I'm sure Peter, Randy will chime in when they get back. Obviously I'm one of the slower guys in the DE Cup group, but I take your challenge pending a dyno. Haven't quite forgetton you pulling me by 3+ cars in a 1/8 mile race. Doesn't sound stock to me....
Time for Eddie to get the "claw" out....
03-04-2012, 08:28 PM
#134
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Guys, I am still traveling.
I have not read all pages.
I don't understand what Rad is trying to prove with this challenge, although I think it would be fun if someone sells me a set of $700 R6 to see if the fiat is faster or not.
My point originally was that the fiat is a useless piece of **** for de guys. It drives like an xbox, feels like crap, needs all kind of mods to keep up with a half the price RS and you can only run 40 track days a year if you are made of money and don't care how many grands you spend.
Brake pads 2k
Rotors 20k
Never mind depreciation!
When I mean track days, I mean like this weekend at NOLA where my brother and I ran 16 25 min sessions..
Rad is selling everything fiat, trailer and gayman, probably to buy a 4.0. He just wants to go out in style.
We must admit he gave it his all before throwing the towel,most fiat drivers on get curb rash at the valet...
03-04-2012, 08:28 PM
#135
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How about we take a poll here and on Fchat and the entrants go by what is decided since this is based on Internet arguing and so forth.
One lap vs Whole Session (or both)
Stock Tires vs Hoosiers
Owner vs Owner or Pro vs Pro
I say make it easy, show up and run what ya brung. Run your own tires on your own car and count who got the fastest lap and who completed the most distance in the session. First session warm up second session fastest lap determines who starts first in the third session which is for who completes longest distance.
I vote for owner vs owner on similar tires (hoosiers) for the fastest lap. Just not safe to be holding a "race" without racing equipment around other people who don't know you're racing. Fastest lap should be the winner (and Time Trial the venue).
One lap vs Whole Session (or both)
Stock Tires vs Hoosiers
Owner vs Owner or Pro vs Pro
I say make it easy, show up and run what ya brung. Run your own tires on your own car and count who got the fastest lap and who completed the most distance in the session. First session warm up second session fastest lap determines who starts first in the third session which is for who completes longest distance.
I vote for owner vs owner on similar tires (hoosiers) for the fastest lap. Just not safe to be holding a "race" without racing equipment around other people who don't know you're racing. Fastest lap should be the winner (and Time Trial the venue).