Compare: Scuderia vs '10 RS
04-12-2010, 11:09 PM
#16
I sat in a Scuderia at a local Ferrari dealer last week. They started it up for me and it sounded insane. The lack of carpets and radio accompanied with carbon and alcantara really made you feel like you were in something more than special. I haven't driven one, but I could only imagine it would be one of the best driving experiences available. I'd be hesitant to track it given its value. As tempted as I was, I don't think it is worth $100k+ more to me than my 08 RS. The prices keep dropping and maybe if they get below $200K I will reconsider. Still, I think there is no other car that offers what a Scuderia can at that price ($240K) at current used values.
04-12-2010, 11:15 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
White with black wheels any better...
04-12-2010, 11:45 PM
#19
Here's my take-
I have a 430 scud, and a 2010 GT3 (non rs) -
I have tracked the scud several times, and the gt3 just once, but have spent several thousand miles on the street in each.
Here are the differences I have seen on track and street:
street:
the Scud gets WAY more attention - everyone and their brother stop / point / take pictures, etc...
The scud is a LOT less practical - -it's hard to see out of the blindspots, very difficult to park, no back seat storage area, etc...
The scud is sometimes "less" fun to drive on street - -it desires to be driven hard, ALL the time, and is not happy at any sane level of speed on the street.
The gt3 is completely happy at sane speeds, and is practical to use as a daily driver (provided it's not winter)
Driving a manual is always tons of fun, especially in this car - such a good clutch / shifter / gearbox feel.
NObody bothers you on the street- a couple people notice, but it draws almost zero attention compared to the scud.
Track -
the scud is an absolute animal on the track- - -
I'm an amateur driver - and this car handles so incredibly well, it's a complete confidence booster.
I've had professional drivers take me on track (me passenger), and was completely amazed how fast, smooth, and competent this car is....it's truly remarkable in the hands of a good driver.
The transmission is perfect for track situations - it shifts extremely fast, and no manual trans can keep up...period...it's not even close.
Porsche -
the gt3 is definitley more of a challenge....
It's going to take some time to build the confidence I have in the ferrari.
I do have a feeling however, that it's going to be more rewarding, and will repay me for all the hardwork learning to drive it.
conclusion:
The ferrari is faster (track and straight line), handles better, ispires more confidence, and is easier to drive.
The Porsche get's much less attention (good), is more rewarding to drive fast (because it's harder), more fun to shift manually, and more practical.
Hope this helps
I have a 430 scud, and a 2010 GT3 (non rs) -
I have tracked the scud several times, and the gt3 just once, but have spent several thousand miles on the street in each.
Here are the differences I have seen on track and street:
street:
the Scud gets WAY more attention - everyone and their brother stop / point / take pictures, etc...
The scud is a LOT less practical - -it's hard to see out of the blindspots, very difficult to park, no back seat storage area, etc...
The scud is sometimes "less" fun to drive on street - -it desires to be driven hard, ALL the time, and is not happy at any sane level of speed on the street.
The gt3 is completely happy at sane speeds, and is practical to use as a daily driver (provided it's not winter)
Driving a manual is always tons of fun, especially in this car - such a good clutch / shifter / gearbox feel.
NObody bothers you on the street- a couple people notice, but it draws almost zero attention compared to the scud.
Track -
the scud is an absolute animal on the track- - -
I'm an amateur driver - and this car handles so incredibly well, it's a complete confidence booster.
I've had professional drivers take me on track (me passenger), and was completely amazed how fast, smooth, and competent this car is....it's truly remarkable in the hands of a good driver.
The transmission is perfect for track situations - it shifts extremely fast, and no manual trans can keep up...period...it's not even close.
Porsche -
the gt3 is definitley more of a challenge....
It's going to take some time to build the confidence I have in the ferrari.
I do have a feeling however, that it's going to be more rewarding, and will repay me for all the hardwork learning to drive it.
conclusion:
The ferrari is faster (track and straight line), handles better, ispires more confidence, and is easier to drive.
The Porsche get's much less attention (good), is more rewarding to drive fast (because it's harder), more fun to shift manually, and more practical.
Hope this helps
04-12-2010, 11:54 PM
#20
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Real helpful eztrader, thanks. The attention grabbing aspect is certainly not a feature I enjoy, particularly in light of the fact that a scud would stand out like a sore thumb in the midst of the tame countryside of northwest CT where I will keep it. With that also comes the chance of attracting the wrong kind of attention too (the criminal kind, to be paranoid). P-cars are more common in my area and likely not given a second thought, despite the somewhat in-your-face color combo I have ordered on the RS.
Practicality is not a factor, this car is strictly intended to be the 'special event' car, the more special the better (within reason). Still need to be able to drive it on standard country roads.
Practicality is not a factor, this car is strictly intended to be the 'special event' car, the more special the better (within reason). Still need to be able to drive it on standard country roads.
04-12-2010, 11:59 PM
#21
]
2) the 458 would actually be first choice probably but seems impossible to source one without becoming part of the owners club with a different model. Called a few dealers and the lists with deposits are 50-150 ppl deep! Would love to hear anyone that knows otherwise.
2) the 458 would actually be first choice probably but seems impossible to source one without becoming part of the owners club with a different model. Called a few dealers and the lists with deposits are 50-150 ppl deep! Would love to hear anyone that knows otherwise.
04-13-2010, 12:18 AM
#23
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OR - get the RS, which undoubtedly will be amazing, and get on a list as a first time Fcar guy at a couple dealers. If what CarreraGT says is true (that these lists are a dealer fabrication and that ferrari will crank out 458 as fast as they can) then in a year or so I imagine one will pop up and decision can be made at that time ..
04-13-2010, 12:21 AM
#24
Drifting
have an 07RS and I had a scud...
agree with almost everything eztrader said...I didn't find the scud problematic when driven at slow speeds and I put almost 5000 miles on it. They are both best of breed and you can't go wrong with either car. I think you have to decide are you a p-car man of a f-car man. Either way you win!
agree with almost everything eztrader said...I didn't find the scud problematic when driven at slow speeds and I put almost 5000 miles on it. They are both best of breed and you can't go wrong with either car. I think you have to decide are you a p-car man of a f-car man. Either way you win!
04-13-2010, 12:21 AM
#25
Drifting
have an 07RS and I had a scud...
agree with almost everything eztrader said...I didn't find the scud problematic when driven at slow speeds and I put almost 5000 miles on it. They are both best of breed and you can't go wrong with either car. I think you have to decide are you a p-car man of a f-car man. Either way you win!
agree with almost everything eztrader said...I didn't find the scud problematic when driven at slow speeds and I put almost 5000 miles on it. They are both best of breed and you can't go wrong with either car. I think you have to decide are you a p-car man of a f-car man. Either way you win!
04-13-2010, 12:40 AM
#26
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Having said that, I still find driving a three pedal Porsche more rewarding. I have a tricked out RS Clone and that sucker is a handful! Fun, fun, fun!
It almost goes without saying that the dealers are flatly lying to you about demand for the car. I've already been approached for the 458 and I know of others already looking at the 458 for sticker, but baulking at their trade-in valuations. Surely there will be early "first kid on the block" buyers, but as with the 430 and 360, Ferrari will make as many as they can sell, all the while trying to play a game of lies with buyers to create the illusion of it being an elite clique of buyers that get preferential access to cars ... it's all marketing lies. Some buyers will sway to the music. Some will not. Years ago, for sure, it was fairly true that Ferraris were a "pecking order" car and it was necessary to work your way up the order. I wonder if even Ferrari can recreate that brand value when this global great recession eventually passes.
The 458, on paper, is astonishing and I don't think the RS can answer that level of specifications. If only it weren't just so outlandishly designed.
The 458, on paper, is astonishing and I don't think the RS can answer that level of specifications. If only it weren't just so outlandishly designed.
I fully expect 458s to sell under MSRP in 12 months from now.
04-13-2010, 01:27 AM
#28
Perhaps an hour on Ferrarichat.com will offer a good lesson in fcar pricing. I agree with CGT, the dealer is either stretching the truth, or erroneously expecting 150 people to show up with the money. If all else fails, go to different dealer, they will work around the territory issue.
The 458 looks quite different in person. You should be able to see one soon.
As for your dilemma, I can offer a bit of advice. I also have a young family, which precludes frequent track events, and my old hobbies (kart racing and supermoto) I considered several cars before buying/building my 911. Included were a new GT3, 993 turbo, Nissan GTR, Z06, an LP-560, and a few others. I have no interest in the contemporary Ferrari lineup..they're fast as hell, but just not pretty. My heart is still in the looks of the 355B (but not in the mechanicals).
My choice is not for everyone, but i don't care. I find myself walking into the garage a few times a night just to get a look. Or walking around the driveway to get a different angle on my little bastard before I drive the hell out of it.
My 911 certainly can't keep up with the others, but I'm not looking for 10ths as much as passion. You want lap times? Get a Birel.. If you want a great driver, either will work. But I can't help but insist you get the one you would love to see in your driveway.
The 458 looks quite different in person. You should be able to see one soon.
As for your dilemma, I can offer a bit of advice. I also have a young family, which precludes frequent track events, and my old hobbies (kart racing and supermoto) I considered several cars before buying/building my 911. Included were a new GT3, 993 turbo, Nissan GTR, Z06, an LP-560, and a few others. I have no interest in the contemporary Ferrari lineup..they're fast as hell, but just not pretty. My heart is still in the looks of the 355B (but not in the mechanicals).
My choice is not for everyone, but i don't care. I find myself walking into the garage a few times a night just to get a look. Or walking around the driveway to get a different angle on my little bastard before I drive the hell out of it.
My 911 certainly can't keep up with the others, but I'm not looking for 10ths as much as passion. You want lap times? Get a Birel.. If you want a great driver, either will work. But I can't help but insist you get the one you would love to see in your driveway.
04-13-2010, 02:17 AM
#29
Not my experience. I've had two Scuds and tracked them both. No rough shifting. And predictible oversteer if you leave the manettino off. It's never made "mistakes" either.
Having said that, I still find driving a three pedal Porsche more rewarding. I have a tricked out RS Clone and that sucker is a handful! Fun, fun, fun!
Ferrari will produce the snot out of 458s; as they assume -- wrongly --that it's still 2005. And while the performance of the 458 may be prodigious, Ferrari missed the mark with the hideous front end design.
I fully expect 458s to sell under MSRP in 12 months from now.
Having said that, I still find driving a three pedal Porsche more rewarding. I have a tricked out RS Clone and that sucker is a handful! Fun, fun, fun!
Ferrari will produce the snot out of 458s; as they assume -- wrongly --that it's still 2005. And while the performance of the 458 may be prodigious, Ferrari missed the mark with the hideous front end design.
I fully expect 458s to sell under MSRP in 12 months from now.
As for 458 prices, I imagine a few of the early adopter customers are in truth paying under MSRP if you could get a factual accounting of their trade-in. It seems to me that the US Ferrari dealers will use the equity in their customer's cars (in trade) to finance the marginal sales necessary to sustain unit sales.
But I want to be clear that the current economic crisis and the abysmal failure of the US auto industry should not be allowed to distort the value and merits of the given car. Both the Scuderia and the 458 are great cars for driving at the track and both are probably superior in outright performance compared to the RS (lap times, apex speeds, braking and acceleration distances.)
I agree with the word "hideous." And I have no qualms about admitting that if the 458 were a beautiful Ferrari, I'd be doing my best to snag one below MSRP. For me, I've always thought of a Ferrari as a car that's beautiful from all sides and every perspective. Even the Enzo, which I think is a preposterously unappealing, slab-sided and gap-toothed mistake, has its stark appeal. But the 458 is no ugly duckling that will grow up to be a swan, it's just an ugly mistake. I would stand on my chair and applaud the engineers and I would share their tears in seeing the designers take the exciting and tantalizing design of the Scuderia and turn it into a cheap, tawdry failure. I agree with the notion that the leading advances in design are controversial by definition, but this new Ferrari is as outlandish and unsophisticated as the new Ferrari California is heavy and cumbersome and clumsy. Ferrari has lost its way. We're going to have to suffer through this time and wait for Ferrari to find their way forward. Imagine if they'd just taken the Scuderia design, plonked it down on the 458 machinery and technology? What a magnificent car!
I guess you could argue that a real "driver" would take the car on its merits to be driven and not weigh into the fashion designer whining. Then again, for this humble driver, the 2010 RS is already so much more car than I can ever expect to put to work -- and it's a beautiful car and it's for all intents, half the price -- what, other than vanity or a misguided elitism would see me paying up to get into the 458? "Nothing exceeds like excess" they say. : )
04-13-2010, 06:32 AM
#30
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Well, I have to defer to an owner with significant track time. The instructor with me at the time was the top guy at the Ferrari driver education facility (in Canada, somewhere, but for US buyers, too) and I remember him saying that I would "learn" to drive the transmission. I'm pretty sure he realized what a damning indictment he'd made.
As for 458 prices, I imagine a few of the early adopter customers are in truth paying under MSRP if you could get a factual accounting of their trade-in. It seems to me that the US Ferrari dealers will use the equity in their customer's cars (in trade) to finance the marginal sales necessary to sustain unit sales.
But I want to be clear that the current economic crisis and the abysmal failure of the US auto industry should not be allowed to distort the value and merits of the given car. Both the Scuderia and the 458 are great cars for driving at the track and both are probably superior in outright performance compared to the RS (lap times, apex speeds, braking and acceleration distances.)
I agree with the word "hideous." And I have no qualms about admitting that if the 458 were a beautiful Ferrari, I'd be doing my best to snag one below MSRP. For me, I've always thought of a Ferrari as a car that's beautiful from all sides and every perspective. Even the Enzo, which I think is a preposterously unappealing, slab-sided and gap-toothed mistake, has its stark appeal. But the 458 is no ugly duckling that will grow up to be a swan, it's just an ugly mistake. I would stand on my chair and applaud the engineers and I would share their tears in seeing the designers take the exciting and tantalizing design of the Scuderia and turn it into a cheap, tawdry failure. I agree with the notion that the leading advances in design are controversial by definition, but this new Ferrari is as outlandish and unsophisticated as the new Ferrari California is heavy and cumbersome and clumsy. Ferrari has lost its way. We're going to have to suffer through this time and wait for Ferrari to find their way forward. Imagine if they'd just taken the Scuderia design, plonked it down on the 458 machinery and technology? What a magnificent car!
I guess you could argue that a real "driver" would take the car on its merits to be driven and not weigh into the fashion designer whining. Then again, for this humble driver, the 2010 RS is already so much more car than I can ever expect to put to work -- and it's a beautiful car and it's for all intents, half the price -- what, other than vanity or a misguided elitism would see me paying up to get into the 458? "Nothing exceeds like excess" they say. : )
As for 458 prices, I imagine a few of the early adopter customers are in truth paying under MSRP if you could get a factual accounting of their trade-in. It seems to me that the US Ferrari dealers will use the equity in their customer's cars (in trade) to finance the marginal sales necessary to sustain unit sales.
But I want to be clear that the current economic crisis and the abysmal failure of the US auto industry should not be allowed to distort the value and merits of the given car. Both the Scuderia and the 458 are great cars for driving at the track and both are probably superior in outright performance compared to the RS (lap times, apex speeds, braking and acceleration distances.)
I agree with the word "hideous." And I have no qualms about admitting that if the 458 were a beautiful Ferrari, I'd be doing my best to snag one below MSRP. For me, I've always thought of a Ferrari as a car that's beautiful from all sides and every perspective. Even the Enzo, which I think is a preposterously unappealing, slab-sided and gap-toothed mistake, has its stark appeal. But the 458 is no ugly duckling that will grow up to be a swan, it's just an ugly mistake. I would stand on my chair and applaud the engineers and I would share their tears in seeing the designers take the exciting and tantalizing design of the Scuderia and turn it into a cheap, tawdry failure. I agree with the notion that the leading advances in design are controversial by definition, but this new Ferrari is as outlandish and unsophisticated as the new Ferrari California is heavy and cumbersome and clumsy. Ferrari has lost its way. We're going to have to suffer through this time and wait for Ferrari to find their way forward. Imagine if they'd just taken the Scuderia design, plonked it down on the 458 machinery and technology? What a magnificent car!
I guess you could argue that a real "driver" would take the car on its merits to be driven and not weigh into the fashion designer whining. Then again, for this humble driver, the 2010 RS is already so much more car than I can ever expect to put to work -- and it's a beautiful car and it's for all intents, half the price -- what, other than vanity or a misguided elitism would see me paying up to get into the 458? "Nothing exceeds like excess" they say. : )
It is worth remembering that looks are entirely subjective and the vast majority of people view the 458 as a return to form for Ferrari in the looks department and think it is very beautiful. Personally i'm reserving judgement until I see one in the flesh. The 430 does absolutely nothing for me looks wise, like you say the 355 was the last beautiful Ferrari, which is why I bought an old Challenge car to race.