Fooshe

Here is what they put at the bottom of their site. Sounds like a NJ only company:

Prudential distributes auto, and other property and casualty products that are offered and underwritten by High Point Safety and Insurance Company, High Point Preferred Insurance Company, High Point Property and Casualty Insurance Company, 331 Newman Springs Road, Building Three, Red Bank, NJ 07701-5657. The Prudential Insurance Company of America, Newark, NJ and High Point are not affiliated companies.

Fooshe

EXACTLY! Well, all except the "some underlying law combined with some actuarial table that says..." part, oh and the ..."bloodthirsty reptiles devoid of any sympathy or ethics or moral compass..." part of the rant, too. If you knew about and saw the amount of fraud that is presented in the industry, along with the total BS that they hear from people who think they hit the lotto because someone "tapped" their rear bumper, you would share their attitude....I promise you. If you saw the dollars wasted on fraud in CA, you would soon think your insurance is a bargin.

I will say this, I work in the insurance field and would still agree with Carrera GT's statement. I think we rank just behind Attorney's, dentists and Collections agents as the most disliked. However, I liken insurance to the cop eating a donut and drinking coffee on the hood of his car at the local stand that you sit and think, why the hell are my tax dollars going to pay this guy who isn't doing crap?! Well, because when the home invasion robbers come to your door and you call 911 fopr help, he is the guy you are praying will show up and save your back side. It's not what it is doing for you now, it's what it will do for you if you need the services it provides.

As I have said over and over again, each State is different right now. State Farm in NJ may have covered a loss that would be excluded in CA or AZ, and so on. The stupid thing about the industry is that they are not standardized in their coverage by State, and in most cases, even by carrier. Furthermore, even though they cover a loss today, that does not mean it will ALWAYS be covered. Coverages change as society and exposures change. Let's face it, they are not up with the times, but they are catching on. Policies change as filing are approved, so you need to know what your policy excludes all the time.

It's not easy to tell clients, especially when I love the activity we all share a passion for. As Larry stated, I learned that his coverage had changed and I had to break the news to him the Mercury is just one of the latest carriers to have a change in their coverage. For right now, I don't know of any standard market insurers that are covering track events. They cover driving schools (meaning driver's training) but not track stuff. Truth be told, the policies were not set up to cover what we do on track at 100 + mph, so they really aren't taking away coverage, they are just closing a loop hole.

I've said it before and I will say it again, call your agent and confirm your coverage before going on track if you are going to count on it to pay for damages that may take place there. If not, buy a policy that is designed for track events. Lastly, if the coverage you are considering seems too good to be true, it might just be.

Fooshe

Hate to say it Ryan, but you really should. Hell, it's a deductible business expense for you.

ATL Fahrer

OK, so the ONLY question I have is why does Lockton charge a "Program Administrator Service Charge" and "Tax" on insurance. They are already getting the premium and to the best of my knowledge, I have never paid tax on insurance coverage. This seems a little misleading, especially, given the fact that the premiums are what they are for a DE event.

At the end of the day, I guess they're the only game in town, so, they can do whatever they like

Hmmm...

Carrera GT

Valid questions. I assumed those amounts would be a matter of a token fee or a tacked-on minimal government charge, not like a 10% sales tax or whatever.

Insurance invoices have started to look like government subsidy programs -- like the laundry list of tacked on fees on any energy bill or property tax, etc. I swear I get charged no less than four times from four red tape merchants for waste disposal and recycling. When I first noticed, I contacted each agency and they gave their mumbo jumbo explanations of how each "service" is distinct. Garbage. It's just garbage ... it can only be picked up once and it can only be negligently buried in a landfill once.

johnr265

TAI2,

After our talk at the last DE, I called highpoint and he told me they were no longer covering DE's. I asked him to check to be sure and he never called me back. Be careful as I don't know if their policies have changed. He was very excited to sell me a policy until I specifically told him I was doing it for the track.

adam_

Folks-

I've been reading my State Farm Auto policy (and declarations page) and can find nothing related to racing, timed events or track use.

This is in California, Policy Form 9805A. I can see no other references, riders, amendments....

I'll talk to my agent (but really what's the point? Nothing he says one way or the other can form the basis of my decision)

Anyone have any thoughts, comments?

Thx

Carrera GT

Does State Farm give you access to an electronic copy of the policy? I can't find it on their site. AllState only sends a printed copy _after_ you sign the application for the product (helluva a way to enter into a binding contract!)

Fooshe

Adam, If you have a copy you can send, I would be happy to read it cover to cover and point out anything I see for you. If you can only fax it, I can send you a fax number to send it all over to. I can get you an answer within 24 hours.


Carrera - I love your ziel, but good God man! You are going to blow a gasket some day son. I say that light heartedly as I actually agree with some of what you have said. If the carrier won''t show you a copy of the their policy jacket before you buy it, RUN! As for those invoices...if they are too complicated, make your agent explain it to you. If he/she can't make heads or tails of it, time for a new Company and/or Agent.

The issue of what is in the invoices depends on who you use. Most appointed agents (people who act on behalf of the company and have binding authority) don't charge any fees unless there is a unique service provided. In CA, agents CAN'T charge you a fee and if they charage for a service associated with your policy, they have to disclose any and all fees on a seprate document that you much sign to acknowledge.

Now if you use a Broker, they can charge a fee and it is negotiable. They may say it is their standard fee for services, but that is just their way of saying that is their skim and it is what they make regardless if you cancel you policy the day after you buy it. Also, surplus lines brokers are allowed to charge fees for their services. Personally, I think it is BS, but it's legal.

Again, anyone who wants me to read their policy, just let me know and I will point out what it says....if anything.

Oh, Highpoint is not doing HPDE policies any more.

Carrera GT

I can't afford to blow a gasket -- my insurance doesn't cover the cost.

Anyway, I contacted the "insurance institute" and the California "department of insurance" to ask them what they're doing about a country in deep recession for four years and insurance costs haven't gone down more than 1%, or why policy documents are written to a reading education level above 1% of the population or why insurers immediately resist all claims and treat their insured clients as suspect frauds. I do not expect meaningful reply.

utkinpol

It is pretty obvious that coverage rules differ from state to state- is there here anybody from MA who already studied details of what Amica, Geico, State Farm ,etc have in their policies? Is there any generic policy from any of big names that operate in MA that would cover potential issues at DE events?

Fooshe

"I can't afford to blow a gasket -- my insurance doesn't cover the cost." I absolutly love that one!! However, I think that gaskets are covered under section A, subsection 14, item 7 ...Gakets and seals section if I recall correctly.


I can tell you this, the California Department of Insurance (CDI) can sometimes be a joke. They will just see you as an bitter part of society. If you say to them "why insurers immediately resist all claims and treat their insured clients as suspect frauds?" they will probably say to you "it sounds like you just had a bad experience with your carrier and you should shop for a new one."

The insurance institute will flat out tell you that they don't handle that kind of question and you need to talk with the CDI.

As for the language policies are written in, I agree. However, since we (CA) are the most litigiuos state in the union, do you blame them for have attorneys write it? I will say this much in their defense...If you read the policy carefully, and can do so without falling asleep, you will can understand it. The issue comes (mostly) with the format. Now, if you really want to throw yourself into a reading comprehention nightmere, read your homeowners policy. Hands down, the worst contract ever written, in my humble opinion.

Carrera GT

The terms and conditions of insurance coverage varies by the side of the street on which your home address appears to reside. But the core of the contract will already define the exclusions and provisions.

It's not a fair deal. It's a contract where the customer is locked and bound into a document they've not seen and cannot be expected to understand, but which can be changed by the corporation at will then reported to the customer after the fact, with the the real change and the real intent of the change buried in a haystack of "updates" and "important notice" mail, month after month, year after year.

Carrera GT

I've had no prior interaction with III or CDI, so it will be interesting to see if they reply at all. I did pose my questions couched in more "reasonable" terms ... " gosh golly darn it, I'm all befuddled with these here inter-web pipes and all ..." and asked for simple things that can't be declined (description of product or service offered for sale, definition of regulations and laws imposed on the provider, etc.)

Fooshe

I am sure you worded your request better than above and I hope you get what you seek.

I, on the other hand, have dealt with the CDI quite a few times and on a host of topics. My fear is what I wrote...they see through a bunch of requests like yours and really don't address much. They are not exactly what you think they are. For example:

If you file a complaint against an insurance company, they assign it to one of their "investigators"...which should be more correctly called "paycheck collecting slug who does minimal, if any work, all day." That person litterally sends you a pattern letter back telling you all the things that the CDI doesn't do. They then send a letter to the carrier asking them to respond to your complaint. The carrier sends a well worded fluff letter telling their side of the story to both you and the CDI. The investigator then sees if they feel there has been a violation. Here is the great part....if there is, you are not entitled to know about it and you get no restitution. They are not legally required to tell you the outcome and claim they are not allowed to disclose it to you. However, not one of them will be able to tell you the statute that says that. Here is the best part, if they do find a violation, they ask (not demand) the carrier to make it right, then they levy a fine on the carrier. Now the carrier will fight the fine and win most of the time. However, if they don't win and are required to pay the fine, you don't get a dime of it...it all goes to the CDI! So all you did was help them collect money and maybe make the carrier think twice about something they will ALWAYS deny they did.