mooty

MD's writes too much and too little time, ink flow is too slow for you. i eventually stopped collecting them once they got too "yuppie". i liked them when it was a more obscure hobby. montegrappa dragon (1995) is my favorite, not the zodiac dragon, those are poorly made.

camera's too? boy i sure am glad i quite that drug. had a bunch of medium formats too. i kicked that hobby.... well, my wife kicked it for me.

OldGuy

Great Point. We can bash all we want here. I didnt go- nor I doubt any one from here go to a GTR forum and start bashing GTRs they came in here.

Speaking of which you know who goes to other forums and starts trash talking?
the NEW BMW M3 owners!! They are in every forum bashing GTR's-AMGs Audis
everything. They are a constant hassle in the AMG forums. I dont know if its because they are just
PISSED to hell that the M3 cant beat a C63 in a drag race and their *****'s are tiny or what!
You think they would be happy the thing is faster on the track BUT NOOOOoooo. It just pisses them
off to all hell and back that the AMG is faster in a drag race. They are whinning that the new DCT
will beat the AMG! How does an auto matic make up for 140 lbs of torque they are missing?
I have been to the track and met M3 pilots. I KNOW they are not all weenies. I guess the posters
are kids posting when their parents have the cars. Its the worst Fanboise group I have seen so far.

allegretto

My Montegrappa Senna is a cool kit, but as with all MG's it's quite heavy.

I'm telling ya Mooty, all my prescriptions and charting are electronic now, no need for the flourish. I still carry an MG with a gel refill though, great feel!

Cameras? Leica M8 and Canon Ds Mk II. DIgital IS the way to go...

am722

I think the problem is that a fairly large segment of owners are fresh out of law school/business school and for some reason they think leasing an M3 is the first order of business. Big egos + very little car knowledge + internet connection = message board disaster.

mooty

ah, i quit long before senna was out. yes, i like it very heavy. i hold the cap with one hand and write with the other. if you put the cap on the pen to write, you will get carpal tunnel!

and if you clip one (aphrodite, one of the heaviest they made, also the ugliest) on your shirt, the shirt pocket will flip inside out or rip right off haahaha.

i dont want to talk camera. i cannot re-lit this affair. stay away from me.

Kit_Chris

Both Nissan and Porsche fans are equally apt at comparing the 911 (Turbo or GT3) to the GTR, the author of this thread has been relentless at finding new angles to compare the two, whether the flaw in argument is attributable to me or others is up to everyone to decide, but I admit participating in this argument with great interest and enjoyment. So, if this topic is going to be brought up (it's well worth it IMO), incorrect assertions ought to be labeled as such, I'm obviously referring to the transmission issue which is the fundamental leitmotiv of the critique. If one wants to discuss seriously, leave out the half truths and other falsifications, and if anyone considers this kind of reasoned talk to be a declaration of faith in either make or model, then we may pick a debate topic that is more likely to be resolved swiftly and definitely: Veronica Hart or Nina Hartley?

On a more serious note, irrational bashing isn't a sin, if we admit this is really what's happening here against the GTR, I'll bow down and let you guys feast off the broken GTR's gearbox cadavre!

Regards,
Chris

allegretto

fair enough.

however NAGTROC is guilty of bashing every car under the sun vs. GTR. i don't think what's done here approaches their level of criticism.


my real point was that just because Nissan says their product is in the same league as a TT, it doesn't mean that all must agreee. i know the GTR-freaks do, and the car rags dutifully make the comparisons because, after all, they do pretty much what they are told. but for me and many others here, i just don't think the two are that close.

this is not to say that the GTR is a bad car, or anything like that. just that I don't say, "shall i get the TT or the GTR?".

OldGuy

How can it be unfair criticism and half truths if NISSAN Stopped production???
I think everything I have said has been more than fair now backed up by Nissan itself!

I didnt start the comparisonof teh Twin Turbo to the GTR! Everywhere Nissan goes they have their Porsche Twin Turbo in tow. Every Nissan Press release mentions the TT. Every Nissan photo op with company pitchmen have a Twin turbo for comparisons sake. This was a default comparison by Nissan. I only used what Nissan said the target was. I just dont
agree that they even came close to the Porsche 997 911 Twin Turbo.
What YOU have said is consistently lined with half truths. FOr instance in my original post and for the next FOUR pages I never mention the Porsche Twin Turbo How is that a relentless comparison to the Porsche Twin Turbo? thats not even a half truth thats a NON truth.

Almost everyhting I have said and Eclou has said has come to fruition. But I can tell you this. As bad as Nissan missed the mark, EVEN I didnt expect Nissan to go down in flames as much as it did, NOR did I expect them to STOP production.
THAT statement is more and any of us "bashers" (In our own forum with much more constraint than any GTR forum) could have put down into words, by an order of magnitude.
And that is just PLAIN fact.

I didnt either. As a multiple Porsche owner I never considered a Nissan GTR with a Nissan dealer and Nissan service
mechanics as any kind of competitor to any Porsche Model. I would consider a Z06 before then and I dont spend alot of brain cells on the Chevy either.

cfjan

We really don't know what's the reason for the stopped production, though, right?! And I think in the article, it said that it is only for the Japanese domestic market production, so they think it has something to do w/ Japan only equipment being not available, etc. (so I don't think it is the gearbox, since the gearbox is shared with the RoW GT-R)

OldGuy

Cj
Nissan cant say they stopped production because of problems. They have to say because of some
cause thats not their own. If they did given all the negative press they have already it would be disastrous.

eclou

Kit I think there are a few basic issues going on here:

1)a manufacturer has over-hyped a car and brought unrealistic expectations
2)a manufacturer has published N-ring results achieved thru a cheater car
3)a manufacturer is experiencing catastrophic driveline failures and is trying to deny culpability
4)a manufacturer has made acceleration claims based on a performance feature that is unusable by consumers for fear of failure
5)a manufacturer is denying warranty claims based upon recorded data (which is inaccessible to the consumers who own the car and data) without their consent to use the data.

Any one of the above would be considered unethical. The culmination of all of the above has resulted in complete loss of credibility for the manufacturer, and (will result in) unexpected loss of value for the consumers it has swindled. This is a practice that is deplorable for any manufacturer and though I find it entertaining today, the repercussions will hopefully show the industry that consumers will not tolerate such behavior.

cfjan

OG,

Agree.. since they are not talking, it makes me wonder if there's something more serious.. but I guess I am just trying to give Nissan the benefit of doubts..

IF (I said if..) it is really the gearbox issue, then I am not sure if they will be able to resume production soon then, since I don't know how quickly they can do engineering changes, etc.

I really don't think it is the gearbox issue (this is purely my guess..) as you figured that something like this has to be tested over and over again before the car is released!! As an former aerospace engineer myself, I am familiar w/ the typical engineering process.

Who knows... we will see, I guess!!

OldGuy

CJ I am STILL an aerospace engineer. But I have been in situations where politics have forced us to fly when we werent ready wasting thousands of dollars and lots of time. Upper management might have force the line engineers to release earlyl

OldGuy

Eclou. I agree with all you stated. Whats kind of funny about this is:
NORMALLY a car needs a 1000-2000 mile BREAK IN.

Instead, after a 1000 miles, the Nissan GTR is not broken in--- its just BROKE!!!!!

cfjan

OG,

I hear what you are saying.. but I guess I just don't believe that they would allow that to happen to their halo car. (Maybe I am just a trusting fool, ha!)
After all, this is one of the most anticipated cars due to the previous GT-Rs were not available in US. (or many part of the world, where left hand drive are used)

I still feel that the gearbox problem is due to abuse from the owner (we can disagree on this).. because the way I see it is that it would happen to any car.. if you take a 997TT and rev to 6,000rpm and drop the clutch 25 times.. something probably will have to give as well.. and that doesn't make 997TT a bad car or unreliable. Granted that with the inclusion of "Launch Control", it really is just inviting the owner to try it out.. So I don't know what to take on that..

Anyway, I guess I am just saying that under the same operating condition as most here drive their GT3, the GT-R's transmission will probably hold up just fine. Again, just my wild guess.