911/Q45

Kind of like a nice, but plain girl. Initially I didn't like it, but it's attributes are warming me to it's looks.

Kit_Chris

Skepticism is perfectly fair, I understand it is hard to believe a 70K$ can perform to supercar standards and still wear a Nissan badge. If Porsche had come up with a 70$ Cayman that performs to 911 turbo or ZO6 levels, would any of us be skeptical?

Now, calling the reporting on the GTR "nonsense" or "hysteria" is deplorable denial IMO and doesn't provide a satisfactory answer to the legitimate skepticism one might have about the published results which are very consistent around the world. Either the car really is well engineered with optimized traction and an effective gearbox to account for exceptional performance despite its weight, or there is a conspiracy among journalists to make us believe the car is better than it really is. Make your pick!

As for preproduction models having been tested, Edmunds provided some of the most spectacular numbers (0-60 in 3,3secs) on a production Japanese car lent to the crew by the owner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDoJdQXmwu8

Car magazine did its tests on a production car as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHc...eature=related

I don't find the GTR's lines flattering either, but again cars are often discarded as hideous until seen live. I'll form a view when I get to see it, we all should.

Regards,
Chris

Sun Ra

drove the 612 down PCH next to one last week for 10 miles... silver looked OK slabby smaller than i thought. ferrari cues with double tail light/exhaust

definitely worth owning at window.

OldGuy

Watt I just dont see you in this car.

Kit_Chris

Motor Trend put the GTR on a dyno and found it to make a little over 430hp at the wheels, which confirms the motor generates a little more juice than reported by Nissan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIhsv6WSboY

Regards,
Chris

datax

Why can't Nissan just say it makes 570hp in the first place? Why do they have to underrate so much? Wonder whether it is because they want to make news about this car all over. I bet the V Spec version gonna have so much more hp.

///Mous3

I think in Japan and in some European countries, higher rated HP means higher tax, higher insurance premium and other higher costs. Isn't it the case that Porsche have been under rating the HP on their cars for as long as I can rememeber?

Remember Ken..., the HP rating at 100% throttle is crap! Those numbers at 100% throttle are for Marketing Dept. You have to look at 25%, 50%, 75% and so on to see "real world" driving characteristics of any engine.

Kit_Chris

570hp is assuming very high drivetrain loss, unrealistic really. For the particular car that was put on the dyno, 505hp is more likely. 25hp over published numbers is nothing to get dramatic about. Keep in mind these are hand assembled engines, individual units will produce power in a given range where I suspect 480hp is the absolute minimum.

Regards,
Chris

SpeedGeek

Where do you get 570 hp from?

Turbo cars vary greatly in hp from test to test depending on fuel and ambient conditions. And dyno tests are good for comparative testing, but not so good for obtaining accurate absolute numbers.

Until someone proves otherwise, I see little reason for conspiracy theories. The GT-R beats its competition through traction, grip and stunning chassis dynamics, not because it has 570hp or 670hp or any other number that seems convenient.

171mph

Motortrend sees 3 things that help explain the supposed paradox: underrated hp (as mentioned above), incredibly short gearing and no loss of torque during shifts. they attribute .75 seconds in the quarter mile vs the turbo to the latter two parameters IIRC.

SA Mike

+1 Nothing is closer to the truth. I've posted comments before regarding the GT-R with the same statements

SpeedGeek

When will this revelation of 'truth' happen? And how can it be hype if it's real? The GT-R has set a new performance standard, and now the rest must play catchup. The GT-R does not make 600 bhp, it simply puts the 500 bhp it has down on the ground better than its competition, that's all. That's not hype, that's engineering.

Like the Corvette, the GT-R has the wrong badge. It will never be a Porsche or a Ferrari, even if it outperforms them. And while I have not driven a GT-R, I doubt it provides the driving purity one gets in a P or F.

So I have no intention of buying a GT-R because I crave the GT3's purity far more than the GT-R's Playstation ability. But I tip my hat to the Nissan engineers for a job brilliantly done. And if Mazda produces a 4 liter Miata that can do 7:30 at the 'Ring, I'll congratulate them too as I walk past their showrooms on my way to buying my next GT3.

SA Mike

You answered your own question. As far as a question of when?.....It'll be less than the time it took Z06 owners trading their cars back for Turbos and GT3s. Like you said when it comes down to it these cars are not Porsches or Ferraris. They will never be. Case in point the NSX, Supra, RX7. All of these cars were in their time made to directly compeat with the 911 Turbo, Ferraris, etc...

SpeedGeek

None of those cars were able to outperform P or F cars like the GT-R.

Anyway, I really don't think Nissan is trying to compete with P and F. Their car is a new idea for a new generation. Sports car enthusiasts will continue to buy P and F. Playstation performance car enthusiasts will flock to the Nissan until they can afford a better badge.

If Nissan wants to compete with P and F, they would need a new brand (not Infiniti) and they would need to spend money on better materials and bring their car's weight down substantially.

Regardless, the GT-R is an astonishing achievement, particularly at its very reasonable price. I think Nissan should be congratulated by all of us without the barrage of claims that they're somehow cheating the game.

UDPride

a) i dont know a soul who turned in a turbo or GT3 for a corvette. Not a one, and I run in a pretty large circle of both porsche owners and vette people. I also dont know many Z06 people who turned in their Vette for a Porsche or Ferrari. Ive interviewed both types of owners on camera and they could not be more different. Other than performance of the car, there is really nothing in common with these groups.

b) nsx, supra, rx7 never competed against porsche or ferrari. they competed against themselves. i have no idea where you came up with this. nobody thinking of buying a supra TT walked outta the Toyota showroom and said "well. i'll still get the F355 I guess." completely different markets and clienteles. The median income levels alone never came to close to crossing paths and cross-pollenating. Its like saying Bentley and Jaguar compete against one another. they are both coach builders of fine sedans. Both are British. But after that, thats all there is.

I see absolutely no correlation between the current GT-R and past cars like the Supra and VR-4 and RX-7. Yet at the same time I dont see many Porsche and Ferrari owners trading in their cars for GT-Rs. They might own it as ANOTHER car, but not trade it in. Porsche and Ferrari owners driving in the $100,000+ category have multiple car garages. A lot of guys choosing the GT-R dont have that luxury. So with the financial and space and family limitations to consider, the GT-R would make far more practical sense.

If someone came to me and said "I need one car to do everything for me and my family, but it must still be fun" I would tell them to run -- not walk -- away from anything Ferrari or Porsche. Id point them to a M3/M5 sedan, GT-R, G37, S5, C63 AMG, or something. What if you have to drive from Kalamazoo to San Antonion for business? You gonna trust your F355 to get you there without breaking down, or do you want a GT-R?

I can only speak for myself, but the choice would be easy.