SA Mike

We'll maybe the RX7 (last gen) was a bad example. But the NSX and Supra were design for this purpose. The Supra (Turbo) did have almost the same if not than more than the 911 Turbo at that time, the NSX well maybe not, but it was coined as a "Supercar". There is no doubt that any car maker now a days can make 400-600hp cars with little effort. Getting them to sell at a premium price (say above 100K) is the trick. The GT-R is a nice car, if you like Japanese styling, fast and furiuos movies, etc.. It's all subjective. Would like to definatley see one on the road.

OldGuy

Speed Geek
the stories of tranny failures on the GT-R are starting to hit the shores. Nissan put a big package together but the question is, was it engineered properly? I have heard now that if you mod the motor you are looking at a 100% chance of a tranny failure. I dont know that for a fact but thats what I have been reading.
So what if it has 500+ hp? could it compete at LeMans? or even an enduro. I know the GT3 can.
I still think this will die down and we will move on.

LA964RS

I hope the GT-R is as good as they say...even better in fact. That way all the OE's will have to make a better and faster car! Good for us.

SpeedGeek

OG, the GT-R's durability is indeed still untested. But remember, BMW had early E46 M3 engines grenading on customers. Let's give Nissan a model year or two to sort out teething troubles.

Not sure what you mean by "this will die down and we will move on". The GT-R has already shown the world that in the 21st century, a $70k car can outperform established competitors twice its price. Even if it's making more power than advertised, that won't change the fact that its chassis is capable of unprecedented and astonishing athleticism at the price. Of course the fuss will eventually die down - it always does. But this car has already moved the game on regardless of how much longer it holds magazine headlines.

Nobody is expecting Porsche and Ferrari owners to sell their cars for a GT-R. But those same owners will feel strangely humble when a GT-R draws alongside them and blips the throttle. And a road with corners won't make the difference any more.

BTW, keep in mind who runs Nissan these days. Ghosn is one of the sharper leaders in the industry. I suspect he will do everything in his power to keep the GT-R energy alive.

Kit_Chris

Could you supply references for these rumors? I looked around and couldn't find a single reference to transmission failure, despite the harsh launch mode the GTR is capable of (which can't be too good for the car if repeated beyond reason). The only rumor I heard of were related to cylinder wall coating wearing prematurely. By the way, that rumor was initiated by someone who claimed to have spoken with one of Nissan's GTR engine engineers.. yeah right. As with any revolutionary machine, the GTR gets as many reviews as disbelief. In fact, the sort of skepticism displayed here shows just how impressive this car really is!

I wonder if the people feeding these reliability problem rumors (some on this board) will bother to report back in a few months to acknowledge that despite a 70K$ price tag, Nissan managed to build a usable and reliable car that offers top performance. Feeding rumors is rather detestable IMO, until there is hard data to support one's claims, it's just venting.

Regards,
Chris

am722

Without commenting any further on the hype surrounding the car, I did find this to be pretty hilarious:

http://blog.cardomain.com/blog/2008/...is-why-we.html

///Mous3

The cause was the inconsistent tolerance on the conn-rod bearings. The thickness of the oil film between the crankshaft and the connecting rod bearings was not sufficient. Compounded by the fact that most owners do not warm up the engines correctly. Oil starvation and engine failure is the end result...

Regardless S54 motor is the finest last I-6 BMW motors. BMW still have this motor available in Z4 M-series.

I appreciate BMW and Nissan to have the courage to push the limits and not playing safe... Good for all of us.

OldGuy

Kit Chris this is a free forum and I wont even justify your post with a response.
At least Speed_Geek keeps the conversation- and thats an important term conversation- civil and light.
we are just talking about a ricer for Gosh sake.

Yargk

I respectfully disagree. With the GT3 Porsche was able to achieve 360 hp, 381 hp, and finally 415 hp out of the same 3.6 liters. Each iteration had one of the best hp/liter outputs of it's time. These are real hp gains that can be measured against the clock and these cars have stood the test of time on countless track days. I appreciate companies that build hard core enthusiast cars despite bean counters telling them that they could make more money in other ways, but I don't see a point in a high output motor that you can't use in the way it's intended.

///Mous3

hp/liter? You don't want to go there Keith...

I have never heard of normally aspirated Porsche engine winning hp/liter title; at least on the paper. The S54B32 motor was 333bhp (for US Model) with 3.2L engine in 2001. That is a little more than 104 hp/liter and it's CSL version is about 110 hp/liter. And that was without Titanium bits like the GT3 motor have in 2003.

I have no idea why one would disagree that any car maker push the limit is a great thing.

BMW E30M3's EVOIII motor had 100 hp/liter back in early 90's. And look into Honda's S2000 engine.

That being said; I for one never care for these "hp charts" that only show the engine's performance at 100% throttle on the dyno!!!

Yargk

Pushing the limits is exactly what I want, it just seems to me that engine failure is over the limit. I don't want to have to worry about the motor granading if I track the car.

As far as hp/liter

You're right, I should have qualified that GT3s have pretty darn good hp/liter, just not the best. Although, I don't think anything is as reliable for its specific output.

allegretto

Well now you've met one!

I have owned about 10 different 911's over the years. In 977's alone I have owned a C4S, TT, GT-3RS and GT-3.

While waiting on my RS's delivery I picked up an 07 Z 06. Which as Mooty recommends, I put on Motons, sways and different rubber. When my RS arrived, I tracked and street drove both and sold the RS. Then I tried a "standard" 3, and sold it.

Now most of you who know me know I'm not saying the Porsche product is bad or inferior. And please let's not launch into "fit and finish" comments. Both products are extremely well-made and require very little but regular maintenance in my experience.

I like big TQ and the feel and fit of the Z better. That's all. Also worth noting that interspaced in that time was also a 360 and a 430 (nice cars for some but neither are a track-worthy as the Z or the GT-3's).

Also, my GT-R is being built this month for July delivery. I think it likely one of the best DD's out there.

I'm not going to pick bones with Porsche on this forum out of respect to you fellas since I don't want any of you to think that I disrespect you or your choices. But I do think as time goes by folks will start cross-shopping much more than in the past. On a performance basis, the gaps are narrowing with each builder's generation. And "status" as manifested by a specific marque is fading as status symbols in general and cars in specific become less important to many for several politico-demographic reasons.

Of course YMMV...

OldGuy

Allegretto
You dont count!! You have a Ferrari!!!

Just kidding!

allegretto

And you have Beemers! Actually I think it will be a long time if ever that I have another Scud Shield. Not a good performance/$ ratio and I'm just burnt out on "prestige" in the form of a vehicle.

OldGuy

LOL, Uh.hummmm..... Our BMWs are for family moving or grocery getting only. The M is especially for Groceries!