OldGuy

I have been biting my lips since this GT-R nonsense came out.
The first news I saw was the New ALL time Record on the Ring
smashing every record known to man. Then an English show
showing the first GT-R coming to the UK and still overwhelming
the 911 TT. I am still telling myself that physics doesnt lie
4000lbs and less HP cant be faster than lighter and more HP.
Now I am reading the Road and Track issue and the numbers are
becoming a bit plainer. Even with this article there is an astirisk.
The factory Nissan driver is driving the car and offering opinions
on the Z06 and the 911 and the GT-R (guess which one is better)
I remember the C6 Z06 coming out and the hype about it being the
Porsche killer (turns out not to be quite true) Now even with the factory
Nissan driver a bit of physics is starting to come out. All three cars
in the article have the same 0-60 time. The TT is 3/4 of a second faster
to 100 than the GT-R and a full second faster to 120.

But it still cracks me up when Mags do these comparison articles and
important performance specs like
Interior styling
Luggage space
Exterior styling
are there to let the mag have the article come out any way it wants.
We all kind of agree the Nissan is butt ugly yet it scored 1.5 points more
than the 997 TT in a contest with 20 different categories which included
the all important spec
Driving Excitement!!!!! Which the nissan scored another point and a half
more than the TT where the whole contest was decided on 6 points.

It wont be long before the truth is out and Physics wins the hype will die down
and the GT-R will be compared to the regular C6 corvette.
Well until the next Hype machine comes out so long!!!!!
(probably the Mazda Miata 4 liter!!!!)

mooty

we are all p car nuts.
but dont underestimate the GTR. i dont care for it's styling in or outside and i dont care about all the tech spec nor how fast or slow it goes, but the nameplate GTR in japan and most of asia is like 73RS in the western hemisphere. it is worshipped. i dont know why, but it is.

btw, C6Z06 is a 997gt3 killer. 996gt3 has zero chance against it.
caveat.... you need to add to the Z06, brakes and suspension.
note, after 20k on z06 it is still cheaper than GT3.
C6Z06 is faster given same driver, unless the course is super super tight.
505hp vs 415 with about the same wt.

i am not talking about feel or driving experience. i am only talking about lap times.

now i am not talking about durability or longevity.

that said, i think i like my GT3 more than GTR and Z06

richk

I am supposed to drive one this week and I will give you an honest opinion...

OldGuy

I am just saying the hype is starting to get closer to reality. A month ago everything obsolete but the GT-R. Now we find out the TT is actually as fast or faster than the GT-R. Whats going to happen when we see numbers of the GT2??

Larry Cable

I agree, either of those cars could/maybe better than a GT3 ... but I still wouldn't buy or drive one of them either ... they just do nothing for me ...
actually they in fact have a negative impact ... they could be capable of
warp speeds and I still wouldn't want one!

cfjan

I think it is typical for car magazines, though, not just the GT-R? They typically want some headlines that would stimulate people buying their magazines.. "GT-R better than 911TT, wow, I got to read that!", that kind of stuff. So I think that's a big part of that.

The other thing is, though, GT-R is most likely indeed very fast. I know there's talk of ringers / pre-production model, but even when magazines go to Japan to borrow privately owned GT-Rs (it has been available in Japan for a few months now..), they are still extracting similar #s. (0-60mph in 3.3 second, etc.) So I'd think that the performance is there.

Is Nissan under-rating the power? Probably. But I guess I don't see that as a bad thing. Just like when people buy a GT-3 and dynoed the car and found out that they weren't cheated by Porsche. If a GT-3 is actually making 430hps, but rated at 415hps only, I am sure the group here will be giving thumbs up to Porsche, instead of saying that it is dishonest.

Regarding why GT-R is held in great regard in Asia (and some other part of the world).. I guess that's because GT-R is kind of like Japan's version of 911. It has a good motorsport history. (often time, winning too much then get banned from the series..) And also known for its overly built engine block that can be tuned to make in excess of 1000hps. (the previous generation inline-6, the new V6, no idea how stout it is yet..) Of course, all the gadgets (4WD, all wheel steering, etc, etc.) It was raced internationally now and then.. it was racing in the 24 hours of LeMan (actually had to race in the GT-1 class..) In '95, it finished only behind the McLaren F1 GTRs in the GT-1 class. (Not a bad company, no?)

I guess it is just not a well known car in the US as it was never available in US. But GT-R isn't something that just shows up out of nowhere. It does have a great history like a 911. (Not quite, of course, but there's probably no cars that has a history like a 911..)

Here's the Wiki page for Skyline GT-R:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Skyline_GT-R

mklaskin

When Nissan has racing record like Porsche, I'll give it some thought. Until then, a flash in the pan.

C.J. Ichiban

Cfjan- I agree with you a bit, when my RS dyno'd 378.6 RWHP 10 days ago, I was pretty pumped. I didn't feel cheated in any way by porsche.

The nissan is a good car- faster than the R8 by a long shot. So it's basically a japanese S5 audi with turbo juice. I don't like the way it looks, but since my Rs4 is 3900 lbs, I have no doubt that it will get moving when it needs to get moving. Heavy cars like this REALLY benefit from AWD. It's not the best car ever made, but it's the best japanese import to American soil since the old Supra.

The GT-R is going to be a great car for 70ish, and provides a great alternative to those who want a fast semi-auto...I'd definitely rather have a GT-R instead of a merc CLS550, E55, CLK55, etc

of course I really like the Zo6...it just looks cool to me, the interior is garbage of course, and like mooty said- it needs some goodies for track usage...but it's a mean-*** v8 rocket.

of course I bought my 911 knowing other cars are faster in launches than mine is- but I don't care. I love the way my car makes me drive.

OldGuy

MKLaskin
Great comment. You captured my thoughts better than me

CJ dont tell no Jaun, but I got the hots for a Z06 too but I just dont admit it.

SpeedGeek

OG, I think you may be underestimating what can be accomplished by having power going to all 4 wheels via some very clever state of the art software and diff hardware. The GT-R is a video game car made real. I believe the secret of its abilities is TRACTION. The GT2 will probably beat it due to a much better power / weight ratio and track-focused suspension, but look at the price difference!

OldGuy

Speed I know and I appreciate your insight. Its just like MKlaskin said. I love the heritage of Porsche.
I love the history. Nissan isnt going to come in and with one $70K car change anything or earn anything in my eyes. Its heavy and its ugly. To say that its a competitor to the GT3 or even the TT is not accurate.
To me its not hard to make a 4000lb rocket. As an engineer I am much more impressed by the engineering accomplishment of the 415 HP 3100 lb GT3 and they can do better. You can make a 4000 pound station wagon fast. But I dont care. I want less weight and RWD and no nannies. The GT-R doesnt pass muster in any of those categories. Not to mention its Gadgety and UGLY. All the things the
GT3 isnt.

eclou

The latest disingenuous journalism is the C&D test. They published a 1/4 mile time of 11.5 sec at 124 mph. What they left out is the heavy correction factors they used for time and speed - 1.04 for speed and 0.96 for ET, due to the test altitude of 4200'. Problem is that you cannot use the correction factors for a naturally aspirated car when testing a turbo car which compensates for changes in air density. The real test times are 11.97 at 119mph, which is more in line with all the other published tests to date.

OldGuy

I am calling around right now to sell my GT3 and get a GT-R because it scored better than the Porsche in
the all important Luggage space performance test.

datax

Then, why did you move to 997? It's heavier and more nannies.

The way you are saying almost sounds as if you don't appreciate the engineering involved in making of GTR. IMO, there are more mechanical AND electrical/computer engineering involved in GTR than GT3. Just like someone already mentioned above, GTR = a video game car made real. It's a techno show piece. If you don't like it, move on. Every car on the road is for different reasons and feelings. I don't even like the GTR. But, the way people hating on that poor car because it's happen to be faster than their car has been talked too much already. Just my 2 cents.

OldGuy

Datax why the ire? The reason we are talking about it is because its on every flipping magazine I get.
This is my forum and I express my feelings about it. Thats whats cool about a free country. The reason I moved to a 997 Truthfully is because of the adjustable suspension. I have a bad back and the 997 is better than the 996 in soft mode. The 2 nannies are switchable off. The other reason is the 997 is MUCH better looking than the 996 and is more faithful to the 911 look. The performance of the 996 GT3 was breathtaking but it just isnt very pretty. The 997 is gorgeous and looks more like my 993 TT did than the boring 996. The 996 lost the 911 message in the asthetics.
Believe me I know about stuffing technology in a package. Thats my job and having worked on 3 different military aircraft programs I know how easy it is to take away from the original mission and get lost in gadgets The GT-R in my opinion has lost sight of the mission more than the Porsche.
And thats My 2 cents.
I dont hate the car but I am growing tired of the hype and now its coming out that *some* of the hype is just that, hype