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Available the weekend after next. Will be framing and installing three exterior doors. Read that as I'd love to have an excuse to get the mechanic's tools out in place of the wood working tools for a couple hours!!! Saturday or Sunday at your convenience.
Pulled the oil pan with @Wayne Smith this weekend and all clear. No debris in the oil pan or pickup tube. There were 3 very small bits of black plastic in the oil filter, by my understanding is that is normal wear from the chain tensioner.
The prior owners were an older couple so Wayne's theory is some high G turns at an Autocross event or my back country rippers may have finally knocked the drilling debris loose.
No conclusion if the high oil pressure I experienced prior to the first oil change is related (it would never go below 3.5 and normally ran between 4-5). Post oil change it now idles at 1.5 and is far more responsive with RPM change.
The biggest question we had was why the Workshop manual and PET catalogs for the M96/05 and M97/01 showed the older design of swirl pots in the sump from the 996 M96/01-04. Even the local dealer was stumped. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-oil-sump.html
Some photos below. I will do a larger writeup on how to drop the pan.
Best method we found to clean the sealant that squeezed out was to let it dry a little then peel it off. Came off very easy.
Finally, thanks to @Jake Raby for spotting the source of the debris and @Wayne Smith for his shop and guidance. The 997 community is stellar.
The pan was made in Belgium???? Really? I guess the Porsche parts procurement team likes beer, chocolate, moules and frites.
My 2009 C2S manual transmission is an Aisin unit made in Japan..... I wonder how much of these "German" cars are actually made in Germany.
For added entertainment, you may consider a magnetic drain plug...... I love mine.... When I do each oil change, I stare at the thing for a good three minutes before I unscrew it..... dreaming of the crazy debris I will find, what I will then do, how I will cope with the horrors..........
Quick update: I got the Blackstone Report back and seems like everything looks normal.
Wayne is helping me drop the pan this weekend. Will report back what we find.
Glad you decided to pull the sump plate with Wayne, especially if using the stock oil filter setup as the spring in it acts as a bypass valve under certain situations and if worn could have allowed some of those large chunks to circulate unfiltered. Kudos to Wayne for helping you out.
Also, you need to run a different oil than what that Blackstone analysis was done on. For under 4,000 miles, the viscosity numbers are too low as are the Zinc & Phosphorous levels, which should be up over 1000. Use Motul xcess 8100 5W/40 if concerned about Porsche A40 approval or Joe Gibbs Racing DT40 if not, especially if doing any track or autocross work that will stress the engine and oil more than normal street driving.
For comparison, here's what you want the Blackstone report to look like and this is my wife's higher mileage 997 that will roll over 100k this year. You can compare the readings between the Motul and DT40 oils.
@Petza914 and Jake - many thanks!! I am checking with the prior owner to confirm what they put in the last oil change, but I suspect it was Castrol GTX. He changed the oil before I had the car shipped from Texas.
I put Motul 8100 5W/40 in after my first oil change three weeks ago, and again when we dropped the pan this weekend. I totally forgot to get a second oil sample when we dropped the pan. That would have given me the first data point using Motul, even if it was only ~700 miles. I will check with Wayne if we have a clean sample in his garage.
Grant
Ps - @Jake, "The Bruce" is the nickname we gave my son before he was born. It stuck.
We poured the oil into one of your containers. We can put this back into the drain pan to stir it up and get an average sample. But you had almost no miles on this oil. I'm not sure an analysis will indicate.
@jake and petza914 - the shop in Texas I bought the car from says they use Pento High 5w40. He said its a euro brand called Pentosin. Do you have any experience with it and could that explain the zinc and ph?
To my knowledge, all Pentosin oils are mineral oils. They're spec'd for certain Porsche subsystems, like Cayenne PDCC and power steering systems, and probably some on the 997 as well, but it's not even the factory motor fill on 997s, so not sure why they're using it when quality synthetic based oils are more uniform, have better anti-wear additive packages, hold up to higher heat and load situations better, and have the needed Zinc & Phosphorous levels for these motors. Not sure that's a shop I'd continue to use.
Would the low viscosity explain the higher oil pressure I was running before changing to Motul?
No, higher fluid viscosity would result in higher oil pressure. The viscosity number in your Blackstone report shows what it should be at that specific temperature. A lower number than the reference number means the oil is actually losing it's viscosity index and is actually thinner at those 2 reference temperatures, which means that additive package that's in the oil to make the viscosity the 5W/40 rating is breaking down and the oil is no longer behaving like 5W/40, so not only is it initially low on Zinc & Phosphorous, but it's breaking down under use as well.
Your initial oil pressure numbers were not incorrect based on my experience with my 2 cars. Under normal temperature conditions, which means oil temp around 200 degrees on the gauge, I get 5 bar in both my cars at anything but idle and at idle it's 3.5-3 bars. If the oil gets really hot, like 225/230 degrees, then I see 4 bar off idle and 2.5-3 bar at idle. I'd actually be concerned about anything lower due to oil pump wear or the oil thinning out too much to maintain proper pressure for lubrication.
No, higher fluid viscosity would result in higher oil pressure. The viscosity number in your Blackstone report shows what it should be at that specific temperature. A lower number than the reference number means the oil is actually losing it's viscosity index and is actually thinner at those 2 reference temperatures, which means that additive package that's in the oil to make the viscosity the 5W/40 rating is breaking down and the oil is no longer behaving like 5W/40, so not only is it initially low on Zinc & Phosphorous, but it's breaking down under use as well.
Your initial oil pressure numbers were not incorrect based on my experience with my 2 cars. Under normal temperature conditions, which means oil temp around 200 degrees on the gauge, I get 5 bar in both my cars at anything but idle and at idle it's 3.5-3 bars. If the oil gets really hot, like 225/230 degrees, then I see 4 bar off idle and 2.5-3 bar at idle. I'd actually be concerned about anything lower due to oil pump wear or the oil thinning out too much to maintain proper pressure for lubrication.
Hmm. Now I'm puzzled. After changing to Motul from Pentosin High 5w40 my oil pressure has gone down and oil temp went up. Previously the oil temp would sit around 200 most of the time and go up to 225 during auto cross or super hot days. Now it's 215-225 most of the time.
07-06-2017, 03:23 AM
