View Poll Results: Poll: Have you had bore scoring on your 997.1 or 997.2 engine?
Yes, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
143
14.50%
Yes, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
18
1.83%
No, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
524
53.14%
No, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
301
30.53%
Voters: 986. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Scored cylinder failure for your 997, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1 or 997.2)
#526
Rennlist Member
Last edited by 8KaboveMSL; 04-08-2022 at 01:38 PM.
#527
Even if you get price down to where it covers a rebuild, you’ll need to also consider impact of things like parts shortages, etc on the timing of a rebuild completion. If you have a choice, start with a clean slate. Either that or do the equivalent of paying for the rebuild up front by buying a .2 instead. Frankly if you have the time and patience and can get the car ~$20k (US) below market it may wind up being the best economic outcome.
#528
Thx. Car already has a LTT. Also SOP for me to let it warm up before driving, always keep it under 3K rpm until oil temp gets close to 180.
Going to shorten oil change intervals to 2k, drive normally and keep an eye on the UOAs. Not sure about changing oil spec, but open to reasoned analysis of the pros and cons. . .
at some point I will probably (another few k miles) have the bores scoped again to see what the progression looks like.
I’m in no way fooling myself, the engine will need to be rebuilt properly at some point but the option I prefer is likely going to take at least until summer of 2023 so I am trying to thread the needle between driving and enjoying the car and making the problem too much worse than it sits now.
Going to shorten oil change intervals to 2k, drive normally and keep an eye on the UOAs. Not sure about changing oil spec, but open to reasoned analysis of the pros and cons. . .
at some point I will probably (another few k miles) have the bores scoped again to see what the progression looks like.
I’m in no way fooling myself, the engine will need to be rebuilt properly at some point but the option I prefer is likely going to take at least until summer of 2023 so I am trying to thread the needle between driving and enjoying the car and making the problem too much worse than it sits now.
My advice would be to continue to drive and enjoy the car, and save up for when/if you need a rebuild. I think you might be surprised with how many more trouble-free miles you can get out of your car by taking care of it properly.
I'm not shilling for Millers Oil, but I've had great results using their CFS 10W-50 NT+ for the last couple of years. You can read my review and UOA's here:
Millers Oil UOA and Review
The following 2 users liked this post by G.I.G.:
8KaboveMSL (04-08-2022),
plpete84 (04-08-2022)
#529
Rennlist Member
I'm not shilling for Millers Oil, but I've had great results using their CFS 10W-50 NT+ for the last couple of years. You can read my review and UOA's here:
Millers Oil UOA and Review
Millers Oil UOA and Review
#530
This is a great thread and to be honest I think the numbers of cars that has this problem is a lot higher just talking to a few Porsche shops locally. They told me out of 10 cars they conduct the Bore Scoring scope review on 997.1 about 80% of the cars had identified issues. And they told me rebuilding is really hard right now due to sourcing the parts. So brand new looking at around $40K cost to replace which is a huge cost. I was told that manual are highly likely to have this issue over tiptronic if anyone can add to that. For everyone that is looking to purchase a 997.1 it is good to have the car conduct the bore scoring scope test for usually around $300 and they will show you pictures of it. Its worth the $300 otherwise, it can cost you an arm and leg to fix down the road.
#531
This is a great thread and to be honest I think the numbers of cars that has this problem is a lot higher just talking to a few Porsche shops locally. They told me out of 10 cars they conduct the Bore Scoring scope review on 997.1 about 80% of the cars had identified issues. And they told me rebuilding is really hard right now due to sourcing the parts. So brand new looking at around $40K cost to replace which is a huge cost. I was told that manual are highly likely to have this issue over tiptronic if anyone can add to that. For everyone that is looking to purchase a 997.1 it is good to have the car conduct the bore scoring scope test for usually around $300 and they will show you pictures of it. Its worth the $300 otherwise, it can cost you an arm and leg to fix down the road.
Also, I believe that the tip cars were more prone to scoring due to the transmission lugging the engine (high torque at low revs), but that might be just anecdotal. Far more 997.1 manuals were produced than tiptronic, so it's hard to quantify.
The following users liked this post:
8KaboveMSL (05-05-2022)
#532
Rennlist Member
This is a great thread and to be honest I think the numbers of cars that has this problem is a lot higher just talking to a few Porsche shops locally. They told me out of 10 cars they conduct the Bore Scoring scope review on 997.1 about 80% of the cars had identified issues. And they told me rebuilding is really hard right now due to sourcing the parts. So brand new looking at around $40K cost to replace which is a huge cost. I was told that manual are highly likely to have this issue over tiptronic if anyone can add to that. For everyone that is looking to purchase a 997.1 it is good to have the car conduct the bore scoring scope test for usually around $300 and they will show you pictures of it. Its worth the $300 otherwise, it can cost you an arm and leg to fix down the road.
I don’t know what the replacement cost of engines is these days and I am not sure about the 80%. However, as you mention the parts shortages are real. Given all of this (whether the percentage is 80% or 8%) it certainly makes sense to have bores scoped on any 997.1 purchase.
#533
Rennlist Member
Were they scoping from the bottom of the cylinder (with the oil drained and sump removed) or from the top? The reason why I ask is because most of these cars will show some kind of streaking or scuffing at the top of the cylinder with any kind of miles on the engine. What's up for debate is how long you can drive a car like that if properly maintained before actual symptomatic scoring were to arise.
Also, I believe that the tip cars were more prone to scoring due to the transmission lugging the engine (high torque at low revs), but that might be just anecdotal. Far more 997.1 manuals were produced than tiptronic, so it's hard to quantify.
Also, I believe that the tip cars were more prone to scoring due to the transmission lugging the engine (high torque at low revs), but that might be just anecdotal. Far more 997.1 manuals were produced than tiptronic, so it's hard to quantify.
#534
scoped recently because i saw soot buildup on the left exhaust. No oil consumption whatsoever. No symptoms or sounds.
Perfectly fine ,bottom to top scoped performed.
Is there some other reason the left tailpipe gets sooty?
Perfectly fine ,bottom to top scoped performed.
Is there some other reason the left tailpipe gets sooty?
#535
What year is your engine and how old is your AOS? Have you checked your crankcase vacuum? Doesn't make much sense to have soot in the exhaust if you are burning no oil. When you say it's sooty, is it wet or dry?
Last edited by silver_tt; 06-30-2022 at 06:04 PM.
#537
Advanced
Both of my exhaust tips are sooty and I don’t have bore scoring (at least nothing severe). Car runs perfectly fine. These cars tend to smoke if they aren’t idled for a bit after a hard drive because oil pools in the cylinders. That could cause sooty pipes. Probably just never have been cleaned.
#538
That's more or less what I was getting at. When people talk about a sooty left tailpipe normally that is a red flag for bore scoring. But if the engine was already properly inspected with a borescope through the sump then there is nothing to be concerned with IMHO (at least from the perspective of bore scoring).
If it's not a heavy wet soot and you aren't burning oil that's even more reason not to be concerned.
My tail pipes also get "sooty" and my engine doesn't burn oil. But I say "sooty" in quotes because it's not really soot; it literally wipes right off the tailpipes with a shop towel like chalk dust and it's completely dry. This is nothing to be concerned with.
If it's not a heavy wet soot and you aren't burning oil that's even more reason not to be concerned.
My tail pipes also get "sooty" and my engine doesn't burn oil. But I say "sooty" in quotes because it's not really soot; it literally wipes right off the tailpipes with a shop towel like chalk dust and it's completely dry. This is nothing to be concerned with.
Last edited by silver_tt; 06-30-2022 at 10:33 PM.
#539
My 2008C2S had soot on the inside of the tailpipes ( equal on both sides) since break-in. After 38K miles my car use essentially no oil. When the plugs were changed at about 25K miles the tech said they looked great.
This car was properly broken in and always warmed up appropriately (<3K rpm and light throttle until 200F oil temp).
This car was properly broken in and always warmed up appropriately (<3K rpm and light throttle until 200F oil temp).
#540
Rennlist Member
Good call on overly rich. It's a good idea to look at the fuel trims and even better to smoke test the engine to make sure you don't have any vacuum leaks if you do find the fuel trims aren't where they should be. Running overly rich for an extended period of time will definitely contribute to bore scoring as you're washing the bores down and going to end up with fuel dilution of the oil.
The following users liked this post:
jchapura (07-05-2022)