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That is not a crack in the cylinder, it is just a squiggly line. They are very common in the castings of these engines and are nothing to be concerned with. You will likely find them in many of these cars you look at.....
For the other pictures of the bores, I don't see anything noteworthy. Charles Navarro has been kind enough in the past to offer that any prospective buyer could email them pictures at LN Engineering and he would opine if you are about to pull the trigger and buy it.
The car is a Canadian car and probably has seen some salt/snow. Most of my cars came from Texas but if the rest of the car checks out none of the corrosion looks like a show stopper to me. With cars of this age you have to expect some parts will naturally need to be changed out at some point so be sure after the purchase price you still have some money left over in your coffers.
For the code you show, 8007 you may need a PIWIS (generally need to go to a Porsche dealer for this) to resolve this. I have not had this code on any of my cars so do not have any firsthand experience with how to resolve this specific code.
I don't know about that squiggly line theory. Cylinder castings should be a uniform material. That line looks like a microfracture that just hasn't had time for oil seepage and thermal cycles to get it to the point where cylinder pressure finally cracks it all the way through. That could very well be a D chunk that didn't get to the full D.
My 2c.
I don't know about that squiggly line theory. Cylinder castings should be a uniform material. That line looks like a microfracture that just hasn't had time for oil seepage and thermal cycles to get it to the point where cylinder pressure finally cracks it all the way through. That could very well be a D chunk that didn't get to the full D.
My 2c.
I have to agree----> silver_tt claimed a crack in a 997 cylinder wall in Bore Scope photo (997 I wanted to buy 4 years ago) as well as bad scoring mark was an oil stain and scoring mark no problem. PPI/Bore Scope Inspection done at reputable 30 year Porsche Shop in Portland.
No disrespect intended but I strongly disagreed and still do today.
thanks silver_tt, i was there when the mechanics spotted this and took a few more pictures if you can chime in at those.
Please call or send an email to LN Engineering (Charles Navarro) or contact Hartech/Slakker (Brandon in the USA and Lee Jenkins in the UK) with your photos. The people here mean well but they are not giving you the correct advice because they do not do this for a living and have never used a borescope before and don't have experience stripping these blocks. I completely understand why they are confused by this but they are wrong.
Slakker is the USA affiliate of Hartech. Several months ago I went through a similar situation and when I contacted Lee Jenkins of Hartech his response was "they are not cracks but just marks in the lokasil see these in most engines we strip and never an issue", confirming what I am telling you.
This is covered in detail with photos as well on the "Engine Gurus" Facebook group that is run by Hartech.
Your best bet is going to be to contact LN or Hartech/Slakker directly and have them answer your question. You have to be careful what you read on these forums, there is a very large amount of misinformation. LN Engineering or Hartech will tell you the same thing I am telling you, but it will make you feel better to hear it directly from them. Good luck!
Thanks guys for your comments, definitely learning a lot here. I read about LN Engineering so I will reach out to them and see what they say.
Based on the issues mentioned (rust, gateway error, “potential” engine damage) I am holding off on the purchase.
For any error codes, I would always have the seller resolve it before the purchase. If he or she can take it and have it reprogrammed with a PIWIS and the error goes away, great. But that should not be your problem. Anything anyone ever found on my cars I was selling with a PPI (which wasn't much) I always resolved BEFORE selling it to them.
LN Engineering is excellent. But yes, hold off until you feel 100% comfortable. That is the right way to do this.... All the best to you.
Got a quick feedback form Support team at LN Engineering (screenshot below). They also believe it's NOT a crack but the way the cylinder bore is built. Unless the piston hit the cylinder from the top, my mechanic scope from the oil sump pan so we can't see the top of cylinder anyway (and that's rare for a 997 from LN reply).
I already told the seller that there is engine damage and I am backing off. Now I am not sure what to do Hard to believe this is happening but I guess some owners here might have face this before.....
EDIT: there is also white smoke from exhaust when owner started the car which i wad told the AOS need replacing
Yep, Stephen is very good and hit the nail on the head. On this engine it is always best to scope from the sump so your mechanic did it the best way. This is in part because bore scoring starts from the bottom.
It is sad how much false information there is on this website and the internet. You did the right thing by contacting a professional who looks at these engines inside and out every single day for a living. Like I said, be careful what you read on this site and others, it is better to go to a reputable source like LN and there is much good information on their website. Many people opine on things that they have literally never done a single time and don't have any idea about. It is irresponsible.
You can still decide not to buy the car and just tell the seller you made a mistake and the engine isn't damaged. That is every bit your right. This has happened a million times, this certainly is not the first....
Thanks guys for your comments, definitely learning a lot here. I read about LN Engineering so I will reach out to them and see what they say.
Based on the issues mentioned (rust, gateway error, “potential” engine damage) I am holding off on the purchase.
As has been mentioned here, it's just squiggly lines in the castings. We see it all the time. If there is concern that is a crack, the best thing to do is pressurize the cooling system to 30 psi and then scope it. If it is indeed cracked, you'll see coolant intrusion. Used oil analysis, at least Speediagnostix, will be able to positively confirm the presence of coolant in the oil if there is a problem.
Saw a 2008 C4S Cab with 118,000km (~73,320 miles) for sell in Vancouver, BC. Drives fine and interior looks mint. Found an independent shop do a PPI and drop the sump pan for boroscope, no scoring but found a long crack on bottom cylinder 5 (left bank), and I back out the deal. Too bad cause the car run and drives great. The mechanic saw the crack and can't recommend the purchase which I agree.
According to CarFax the car spent its first 10years in East Coast (Ontario) (spotted some rusty header and exhaust bolts), that why I picked a shop to do the scope from the sump instead of spark plug openings. Did some research here on Rennlist and thanks to all the enthusiasts here.
On to the search for the next one....
the rust does look more of an issue once it is on the lift crack on cylinder 5
Just be very careful when buying a 997 in Canada because I found 3 997's with low miles on it and in great condition and turns out all 3 had bore scoring on it. The weather up north is cold and wouldn't be surprised when these cars are either not driven enough or not warmed up properly. Make sure to conduct a bore scoring before purchasing any 997.1 and 997.2's. I hear 997.2 are starting to creep up too which is sad because I was hoping to get a 997.2 but even that generation is not bullet proof of bore scoring.
My $300 bore scoring saved me 3x's!!! Otherwise would have have to deal with it eventually and spending $30K for engine rebuild.
Just be very careful when buying a 997 in Canada because I found 3 997's with low miles on it and in great condition and turns out all 3 had bore scoring on it. The weather up north is cold and wouldn't be surprised when these cars are either not driven enough or not warmed up properly. Make sure to conduct a bore scoring before purchasing any 997.1 and 997.2's. I hear 997.2 are starting to creep up too which is sad because I was hoping to get a 997.2 but even that generation is not bullet proof of bore scoring.
My $300 bore scoring saved me 3x's!!! Otherwise would have have to deal with it eventually and spending $30K for engine rebuild.
Important/spot-on comment because I had the same experience. There were 2 997S cars from Vancouver BC & Whistler BC that I was considering buying and BOTH had bad scoring.
This is the 3rd time I posted this picture. It has both a crack in the middle and a squiggly line to the right of the crack. The crack is fatal, the squiggly line is not.
06-06-2024, 12:41 PM
Hard to believe this is happening but I guess some owners here might have face this before.....
