Climarepair.com

Possibly with a compression test or with an endoscopic camera.

aglaes

You guys are scaring me with all the bore scoring. I've been planning to buy a 997 sometime over the coming months. It almost sounds like I should plan on an engine re-build at some point in the future as a 997 owner.

Charles Navarro

Just something to be aware of before and after purchase. It's worse not knowing and ending up paying full price for a car with a problem which happens more often than not.

aglaes

It sounds like you are saying that there is a high probability that an M97 engine will eventually have this problem - or am I reading that wrong?

I'm in serious conversations with a guy about buying a 2006 Carrera S with about 34k miles. Are you saying I should factor in an engine re-build into the price? Assuming you weren't going to add a lot of performance upgrades, what would an engine re-build to correct the bore scoring problem cost?

If I ask a shop to scope the cylinders to look for this problem as part of a PPI, what should I expect to pay?

Ed99

You must get a bore scoring analyst done before you buy any 997.1's. Early this year I almost bought a 997.1 C2S manual with only 50K miles on it and kept in great condition and never driven during the winter time and my sales was subject to bore scoring results. Unfortunately, the result had bore scoring on it and the seller was so shocked himself because his car never had any symptoms of it. The seller even factor in the price for engine rebuild and reduced the price down $20K. But I walked because I didn't want the headache down the road.

A few months after that I saw another 997.1 C4S that I really like with only 30K miles on it and car is in mint condition. Same..got a bore scoring inspection done and it came out with scoring on it. Again the seller was super shocked about it and couldn't believe it. I walked again since I don't want to deal with the headache.

If I was the seller I would have the bore scoring done because I am sure all buyers will ask for that report. Both situation the seller paid for the bore scoring which was nice of them.

As these cars are getting older, there is a higher chances of it happening. Not trying to scare you but to rebuild the engine can cost you anywhere from $25-30K with parts and labor. Also, there is a shortage of parts so you might have to wait 1-2yrs.

silver_tt

Bore scoring is not exclusive to 997.1s in any way. Any of the modern water cooled non-Mezger 911 engines that don't have SUMEbore (991.2 and later) can suffer from bore scoring.

8KaboveMSL

Not an expert but have done quite a bit of reading to understand why and where this happens. I’m sure someone will weigh in with a bit more precision than I can offer off the top of my my head, but. . .

More generally, it appears to affect, with some exceptions, Boxsters, Caymans and 911s from MY 99 through 2008. I have not seen any data to this point that would suggest the problem on the DFI engine powered models (2009 and later) that is anywhere near as prevalent as it is the models equipped w/ other water cooled engines.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, because it does but to characterize the risk as the same between the 1999-2008 models and the 2009 and later models would be disingenuous. There is a reason that a 997.2 goes for $20k to $25k more than an equivalent 997.1. It’s not the only reason but it sure does factor in pretty significantly.

8KaboveMSL

@groovzilla had a few done recently. Maybe he can weigh in. My recollection is that those PPIs were in the $300-$600 range.

silver_tt

It can manifest itself in different ways depending on the engine (e.g. tighter piston clearances) but certainly your comment about it not affecting or being as prevalent on the DFI engines is false. The reason for the exception like the boxsters has more to do with things like bore-stroke ratios. DFI engines have HPFPs with high pressure injectors that can leak fuel into the cylinder when they are supposed to be shut off or spray improperly such that the fuel doesn't completely atomize. This will wash the oil off the cylinder wall and fuel dilute/thin your oil.

Ed99

What are the percentage of newer 991's with this issue? I am assuming the 991's have a lot fewer bore scoring issues than the 997.1?

silver_tt

These engines should all still have Nikasil plated cylinders like the Mezger got if you ask me. 90% of failures on the 9A1 (997.2, 991) are due to bore scoring.

8KaboveMSL

I certainly have no first hand knowledge of bore scoring incidence on 997.1s compared to 997.2s. I am going off of what I’ve read (or seen on YouTube) from folks (like FSI, Hartech and others) who do see these issues. I get that those guys are the ones selling solutions so you have to consider the info in that context.

I’m certainly aware that it can happen on 997.2s. I wasn’t aware that it was as prevalent on the 9A1s as it is on the M96/7s. I’m here to learn so totally open to that being possible.

Just because I ain’t heard about doesn’t mean it ain’t so.

Houndstooth

I wonder how many people are getting their bores scoped, seeing completely normal minor scuffing or streaks, and thinking it’s bore scoring. I’ve seen this happen on here a few times.

Having owned many different cars from different brands, all with their own issues that owners get all worked up about, I can tell you that every 10-20 year old car is going to have its problems. But much of the time it is the people who sell solutions for those problems who are stoking the fires telling everyone it is a huge concern. And they tell you that only they can fix the problem properly. And on every car forum I’ve been on, people eat it right up.

silver_tt

Are you referring to me? I am an investment banker -- I am not selling you any solutions unless you want to buy some derivatives. I manage risk for a living. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that some risk doesn't exist because it makes you feel better, I am not here to stop you...............

plpete84

Pretty sure he was referring to FSI, Hartech and similar who provide solutions - not you In the end, is bore scoring a problem? Yes. Is it as wide spread as it's made to be? Maybe but I'm not sure. People that fix the problem and have a steady flow of engines to rebuild may say yes as that's all they see. How that number compares to all cars out there or people that even know about it is another story. There are people that still don't know anything about the IMS issues on earlier cars because they don't frequent message boards. I'm a firm believer that many of these problems arise from long oil drain intervals that have been suggested by Porsche. We're talking anywhere between 10k to 20k miles. Current owners who purchase a car that has been owned by 2, 3 or 4 other folks prior and that have followed the factory directions get to inherit some of the issues that have been unknowingly created by previous owners. 20k mile oil change interval sounds great from a low cost of ownership perspective or the environmental side but you can't tell me the oil will be still providing an adequate level of protection on a highly strung motor that's driven hard or could have seen many short trips.