DIY and Review - Function First Transmission Mount Insert for 997.2
11-23-2021, 05:52 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
A floor jack and good jackstands and you are in business for working on your car and in a safe manner. They will pay for themselves within the first project. Otherwise you are not into working on cars. Having said that, and back to the subject at hand. I have the orange ones from FF and new OEM/Conteco motor mounts with OEM short shift kit. Seems perfect to me.
11-23-2021, 06:03 PM
#48
I went black and they seem fine. The biggest improvement came with the hard motor mounts.
11-23-2021, 06:26 PM
#49
A floor jack and good jackstands and you are in business for working on your car and in a safe manner. They will pay for themselves within the first project. Otherwise you are not into working on cars. Having said that, and back to the subject at hand. I have the orange ones from FF and new OEM/Conteco motor mounts with OEM short shift kit. Seems perfect to me.
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Floyd540 (11-23-2021)
11-23-2021, 09:08 PM
#50
11-23-2021, 09:27 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Anyone have any more updates on the soft/orange FF inserts? Not that is matters as I'm taking my car in today to have them installed along with changing the tranny fluid to Mobil PTX. FWIW, I have a 997.1 w/55k miles on it and the FF engine mounts already installed. So far, very little NVH from the engine mounts and it should decrease after more miles are put on the car I've read from numerous sources.
03-11-2022, 12:25 PM
#52
@EMC2 , both you and @Petza914 described a clunk and I’m curious if that went away after your inserts.
I get an annoying (and recent) clunk or thud on my 997.2 C2 PDK in two scenarios:
1) When slowing to a stop, which is hard to pinpoint as it feels like a weight shift (occurring just prior to the stop), but could also be the 2-1 downshift itself, as I have actually heard/felt this shift as more of a metal on metal clunk if *manually* downshifting the PDK to first (not my normal driving habit but was trying to pinpoint where the clunk was coming from). Usually, in PDK auto mode, it is more of a thud though.
2) Also recent behavior, I get significant driveline slop which feels like a clunk or thud when I’m on and off throttle, regardless of auto or manual mode. I can create this behavior at steady highway speeds in higher gears, during aggressive on/off throttle on spirited drives, and during low speed city traffic. This feels more like a delay of driveline engagement than a weight transfer though.
I recently changed my 75k mile engine mounts for brand new OEM mounts but that didn’t resolve the issue like I was hoping, so I suspected my PDK mounts could be the next culprit, and/or that my PDK needs a PIWIS calibration. Note, transmission fluid and pan were changed about two years ago but unclear from invoice if the clutch oil was changed.
As I wasn’t sure which way to go, I decided to bring it to a local and reputable Indy. They have the car now and said that after inspecting the suspension, bushings/axle connections etc, they think my PDK transmission mount is worn, so they are working on replacing that now. They ran into a hiccup as their tool is made for the manual trans mount with two bolts as opposed to the single bolt on the PDK mount so they are checking with a local machine shop to have their tool modified to work with the PDK’s single bolt.
Anyway, curious how similar your clunking symptoms were to mine (my car just feels really sloppy lately), and whether tightening up that bushing helped alleviate some of the clunking.
If my mount replacement is at least a step in the right direction with moderate improvement, I might look to further tightening that bushing with inserts and then maybe getting my PDK PIWIS-calibrated.
Lastly, any concerns on decreased HP with the transmission mount bushing being firmed up vs. factory spec? I ask because Raby & team have shown on dyno that semi-solid engine mounts have the effect of decreasing power as it appears the knock sensors are causing the engine to pull timing. Wondering if the added stiffness of the transmission mount would basically cause that same effect as it would theoretically transmit additional harshness to the knock sensors.
I get an annoying (and recent) clunk or thud on my 997.2 C2 PDK in two scenarios:
1) When slowing to a stop, which is hard to pinpoint as it feels like a weight shift (occurring just prior to the stop), but could also be the 2-1 downshift itself, as I have actually heard/felt this shift as more of a metal on metal clunk if *manually* downshifting the PDK to first (not my normal driving habit but was trying to pinpoint where the clunk was coming from). Usually, in PDK auto mode, it is more of a thud though.
2) Also recent behavior, I get significant driveline slop which feels like a clunk or thud when I’m on and off throttle, regardless of auto or manual mode. I can create this behavior at steady highway speeds in higher gears, during aggressive on/off throttle on spirited drives, and during low speed city traffic. This feels more like a delay of driveline engagement than a weight transfer though.
I recently changed my 75k mile engine mounts for brand new OEM mounts but that didn’t resolve the issue like I was hoping, so I suspected my PDK mounts could be the next culprit, and/or that my PDK needs a PIWIS calibration. Note, transmission fluid and pan were changed about two years ago but unclear from invoice if the clutch oil was changed.
As I wasn’t sure which way to go, I decided to bring it to a local and reputable Indy. They have the car now and said that after inspecting the suspension, bushings/axle connections etc, they think my PDK transmission mount is worn, so they are working on replacing that now. They ran into a hiccup as their tool is made for the manual trans mount with two bolts as opposed to the single bolt on the PDK mount so they are checking with a local machine shop to have their tool modified to work with the PDK’s single bolt.
Anyway, curious how similar your clunking symptoms were to mine (my car just feels really sloppy lately), and whether tightening up that bushing helped alleviate some of the clunking.
If my mount replacement is at least a step in the right direction with moderate improvement, I might look to further tightening that bushing with inserts and then maybe getting my PDK PIWIS-calibrated.
Lastly, any concerns on decreased HP with the transmission mount bushing being firmed up vs. factory spec? I ask because Raby & team have shown on dyno that semi-solid engine mounts have the effect of decreasing power as it appears the knock sensors are causing the engine to pull timing. Wondering if the added stiffness of the transmission mount would basically cause that same effect as it would theoretically transmit additional harshness to the knock sensors.
Last edited by ohmyggg; 03-11-2022 at 12:50 PM.
03-11-2022, 12:47 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
I have to clarify that the inserts on a manual transmission, the NVH is noticeably worse than the PDK. On a manual, even with the softest insert you get the raw noise of every shift and gear mesh transmitted right into the cabin. It is almost like a highly modified track car that has the transmission mounted right onto the chassis. No, you don't want that on a street car. I had it on a 997.2 manual (since sold already) but had to take it off. Have a competent shop install the stock transmission mount instead.
03-11-2022, 12:52 PM
#54
Thanks, Henry. Yeah, I definitely don’t want additional NVH. Mine is a PDK, so if I went with inserts, I’d definitely stick to the softest version.
03-11-2022, 01:02 PM
#55
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
@EMC2 , both you and @Petza914 described a clunk and I’m curious if that went away after your inserts.
I get an annoying (and recent) clunk or thud on my 997.2 C2 PDK in two scenarios:
1) When slowing to a stop, which is hard to pinpoint as it feels like a weight shift (occurring just prior to the stop), but could also be the 2-1 downshift itself, as I have actually heard/felt this shift as more of a metal on metal clunk if *manually* downshifting the PDK to first (not my normal driving habit but was trying to pinpoint where the clunk was coming from). Usually, in PDK auto mode, it is more of a thud though.
2) Also recent behavior, I get significant driveline slop which feels like a clunk or thud when I’m on and off throttle, regardless of auto or manual mode. I can create this behavior at steady highway speeds in higher gears, during aggressive on/off throttle on spirited drives, and during low speed city traffic. This feels more like a delay of driveline engagement than a weight transfer though.
I recently changed my 75k mile engine mounts for brand new OEM mounts but that didn’t resolve the issue like I was hoping, so I suspected my PDK mounts could be the next culprit, and/or that my PDK needs a PIWIS calibration. Note, transmission fluid and pan were changed about two years ago but unclear from invoice if the clutch oil was changed.
As I wasn’t sure which way to go, I decided to bring it to a local and reputable Indy. They have the car now and said that after inspecting the suspension, bushings/axle connections etc, they think my PDK transmission mount is worn, so they are working on replacing that now. They ran into a hiccup as their tool is made for the manual trans mount with two bolts as opposed to the single bolt on the PDK mount so they are checking with a local machine shop to have their tool modified to work with the PDK’s single bolt.
Anyway, curious how similar your clunking symptoms were to mine (my car just feels really sloppy lately), and whether tightening up that bushing helped alleviate some of the clunking.
If my mount replacement is at least a step in the right direction with moderate improvement, I might look to further tightening that bushing with inserts and then maybe getting my PDK PIWIS-calibrated.
Lastly, any concerns on decreased HP with the transmission mount bushing being firmed up vs. factory spec? I ask because Raby & team have shown on dyno that semi-solid engine mounts have the effect of decreasing power as it appears the knock sensors are causing the engine to pull timing. Wondering if the added stiffness of the transmission mount would basically cause that same effect as it would theoretically transmit additional harshness to the knock sensors.
I get an annoying (and recent) clunk or thud on my 997.2 C2 PDK in two scenarios:
1) When slowing to a stop, which is hard to pinpoint as it feels like a weight shift (occurring just prior to the stop), but could also be the 2-1 downshift itself, as I have actually heard/felt this shift as more of a metal on metal clunk if *manually* downshifting the PDK to first (not my normal driving habit but was trying to pinpoint where the clunk was coming from). Usually, in PDK auto mode, it is more of a thud though.
2) Also recent behavior, I get significant driveline slop which feels like a clunk or thud when I’m on and off throttle, regardless of auto or manual mode. I can create this behavior at steady highway speeds in higher gears, during aggressive on/off throttle on spirited drives, and during low speed city traffic. This feels more like a delay of driveline engagement than a weight transfer though.
I recently changed my 75k mile engine mounts for brand new OEM mounts but that didn’t resolve the issue like I was hoping, so I suspected my PDK mounts could be the next culprit, and/or that my PDK needs a PIWIS calibration. Note, transmission fluid and pan were changed about two years ago but unclear from invoice if the clutch oil was changed.
As I wasn’t sure which way to go, I decided to bring it to a local and reputable Indy. They have the car now and said that after inspecting the suspension, bushings/axle connections etc, they think my PDK transmission mount is worn, so they are working on replacing that now. They ran into a hiccup as their tool is made for the manual trans mount with two bolts as opposed to the single bolt on the PDK mount so they are checking with a local machine shop to have their tool modified to work with the PDK’s single bolt.
Anyway, curious how similar your clunking symptoms were to mine (my car just feels really sloppy lately), and whether tightening up that bushing helped alleviate some of the clunking.
If my mount replacement is at least a step in the right direction with moderate improvement, I might look to further tightening that bushing with inserts and then maybe getting my PDK PIWIS-calibrated.
Lastly, any concerns on decreased HP with the transmission mount bushing being firmed up vs. factory spec? I ask because Raby & team have shown on dyno that semi-solid engine mounts have the effect of decreasing power as it appears the knock sensors are causing the engine to pull timing. Wondering if the added stiffness of the transmission mount would basically cause that same effect as it would theoretically transmit additional harshness to the knock sensors.
Your situation sounds like it may be different than mine though and sounds like maybe it's trans related. I can reproduce my sound by pulling out of my driveway on an angle and making the rear suspension fully extend on one side from the uneveness and it's the same sound I sometimes hear when underway.
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ohmyggg (03-17-2022)
03-11-2022, 01:11 PM
#56
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I have to clarify that the inserts on a manual transmission, the NVH is noticeably worse than the PDK. On a manual, even with the softest insert you get the raw noise of every shift and gear mesh transmitted right into the cabin. It is almost like a highly modified track car that has the transmission mounted right onto the chassis. No, you don't want that on a street car. I had it on a 997.2 manual (since sold already) but had to take it off. Have a competent shop install the stock transmission mount instead.
I think Wayne Smith even installed the black race versions and he doesn't have that either. Almost sounds like something incorrect was done with your installation.
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Wayne Smith (03-11-2022)
03-11-2022, 02:20 PM
#57
The whine that you’re both mentioning is interesting because I have noticed an increased amount of whine that seems to have started around when I started noticing my clunking symptoms. It’s like an additional mechanical whine that accompanies the engine sound. Hear it on high revs, and especially on deceleration (engine brake/overrun if I keep the PDK locked into gear slowing into a corner for example).
03-11-2022, 10:58 PM
#58
Huh? I have none of that and I know what you're talking about because the z06 transmission I have in one of my 928s is mounted with semi solid mounts that do exactly that, and you're right, it's not enjoyable. The orange FF inserts on my 997 don't transmit any whine into the cabin at all and I don't notice any noise difference at all from stock - they're just going to prolong the life of the stock mounts and maybe remove a bit of slop. Maybe there's a difference between 997.1 and 997.2 cars, but can't understand what that would be.
I think Wayne Smith even installed the black race versions and he doesn't have that either. Almost sounds like something incorrect was done with your installation.
I think Wayne Smith even installed the black race versions and he doesn't have that either. Almost sounds like something incorrect was done with your installation.
03-13-2022, 10:36 AM
#59
Rennlist
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@EMC2 , both you and @Petza914 described a clunk and I’m curious if that went away after your inserts.
I get an annoying (and recent) clunk or thud on my 997.2 C2 PDK in two scenarios:
1) When slowing to a stop, which is hard to pinpoint as it feels like a weight shift (occurring just prior to the stop), but could also be the 2-1 downshift itself, as I have actually heard/felt this shift as more of a metal on metal clunk if *manually* downshifting the PDK to first (not my normal driving habit but was trying to pinpoint where the clunk was coming from). Usually, in PDK auto mode, it is more of a thud though.
2) Also recent behavior, I get significant driveline slop which feels like a clunk or thud when I’m on and off throttle, regardless of auto or manual mode. I can create this behavior at steady highway speeds in higher gears, during aggressive on/off throttle on spirited drives, and during low speed city traffic. This feels more like a delay of driveline engagement than a weight transfer though.
I recently changed my 75k mile engine mounts for brand new OEM mounts but that didn’t resolve the issue like I was hoping, so I suspected my PDK mounts could be the next culprit, and/or that my PDK needs a PIWIS calibration. Note, transmission fluid and pan were changed about two years ago but unclear from invoice if the clutch oil was changed.
As I wasn’t sure which way to go, I decided to bring it to a local and reputable Indy. They have the car now and said that after inspecting the suspension, bushings/axle connections etc, they think my PDK transmission mount is worn, so they are working on replacing that now. They ran into a hiccup as their tool is made for the manual trans mount with two bolts as opposed to the single bolt on the PDK mount so they are checking with a local machine shop to have their tool modified to work with the PDK’s single bolt.
Anyway, curious how similar your clunking symptoms were to mine (my car just feels really sloppy lately), and whether tightening up that bushing helped alleviate some of the clunking.
If my mount replacement is at least a step in the right direction with moderate improvement, I might look to further tightening that bushing with inserts and then maybe getting my PDK PIWIS-calibrated.
Lastly, any concerns on decreased HP with the transmission mount bushing being firmed up vs. factory spec? I ask because Raby & team have shown on dyno that semi-solid engine mounts have the effect of decreasing power as it appears the knock sensors are causing the engine to pull timing. Wondering if the added stiffness of the transmission mount would basically cause that same effect as it would theoretically transmit additional harshness to the knock sensors.
I get an annoying (and recent) clunk or thud on my 997.2 C2 PDK in two scenarios:
1) When slowing to a stop, which is hard to pinpoint as it feels like a weight shift (occurring just prior to the stop), but could also be the 2-1 downshift itself, as I have actually heard/felt this shift as more of a metal on metal clunk if *manually* downshifting the PDK to first (not my normal driving habit but was trying to pinpoint where the clunk was coming from). Usually, in PDK auto mode, it is more of a thud though.
2) Also recent behavior, I get significant driveline slop which feels like a clunk or thud when I’m on and off throttle, regardless of auto or manual mode. I can create this behavior at steady highway speeds in higher gears, during aggressive on/off throttle on spirited drives, and during low speed city traffic. This feels more like a delay of driveline engagement than a weight transfer though.
I recently changed my 75k mile engine mounts for brand new OEM mounts but that didn’t resolve the issue like I was hoping, so I suspected my PDK mounts could be the next culprit, and/or that my PDK needs a PIWIS calibration. Note, transmission fluid and pan were changed about two years ago but unclear from invoice if the clutch oil was changed.
As I wasn’t sure which way to go, I decided to bring it to a local and reputable Indy. They have the car now and said that after inspecting the suspension, bushings/axle connections etc, they think my PDK transmission mount is worn, so they are working on replacing that now. They ran into a hiccup as their tool is made for the manual trans mount with two bolts as opposed to the single bolt on the PDK mount so they are checking with a local machine shop to have their tool modified to work with the PDK’s single bolt.
Anyway, curious how similar your clunking symptoms were to mine (my car just feels really sloppy lately), and whether tightening up that bushing helped alleviate some of the clunking.
If my mount replacement is at least a step in the right direction with moderate improvement, I might look to further tightening that bushing with inserts and then maybe getting my PDK PIWIS-calibrated.
Lastly, any concerns on decreased HP with the transmission mount bushing being firmed up vs. factory spec? I ask because Raby & team have shown on dyno that semi-solid engine mounts have the effect of decreasing power as it appears the knock sensors are causing the engine to pull timing. Wondering if the added stiffness of the transmission mount would basically cause that same effect as it would theoretically transmit additional harshness to the knock sensors.
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ohmyggg (03-17-2022)
03-17-2022, 12:16 PM
#60
@Emc2design @Petza914
Thanks for the feedback. PDK mount was changed last week and the improvement was minor at best.
Also drove a friend’s 997.1 manual which occasionally has similar clunks and thumps (made me feel a little better) but the clunks were not as severe as mine, so I still think things could be optimized for me.
Next things I’ll look into are:
-consider inserts
-get a PIWIS calibration done
-change the gear/clutch oil (tranny oil was changed in 2020)
I wonder, would it make more sense for the car to have fresh gear oil prior to the calibration or should I go for calibration first?
Someone on another group also said they had similar symptoms caused by a leak in their RMS which they spotted because there was some engine oil seepage between the engine and transmission connection point which led to engine oil getting into the PDK. I once recall spotting what looked like seepage at this joint too, so that’s something else I’ll need to look into.
Thanks for the feedback. PDK mount was changed last week and the improvement was minor at best.
Also drove a friend’s 997.1 manual which occasionally has similar clunks and thumps (made me feel a little better) but the clunks were not as severe as mine, so I still think things could be optimized for me.
Next things I’ll look into are:
-consider inserts
-get a PIWIS calibration done
-change the gear/clutch oil (tranny oil was changed in 2020)
I wonder, would it make more sense for the car to have fresh gear oil prior to the calibration or should I go for calibration first?
Someone on another group also said they had similar symptoms caused by a leak in their RMS which they spotted because there was some engine oil seepage between the engine and transmission connection point which led to engine oil getting into the PDK. I once recall spotting what looked like seepage at this joint too, so that’s something else I’ll need to look into.