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Thanks, @Iceter, that's really helpful -- does not cloud at all...another very good data point.
Indeed, perhaps I go in stages and install the Eibachs first.
If I'm completely honest, I was trying to do my suspension work all at once and save myself the hassle of tearing things apart a couple of times...I am not Mr. Mechanically Adept by any stretch, though it does seem wiser to go a staggered route.
The good news is I have a DSC that I have yet to install and it should help prevent too stiff of a ride when I want it softer, and then the stiffness when summoned.
Regardless, thanks again for the input, Iceter. Greatly appreciated.
Bob
Take my advice, watch a YouTube video and then go swap out your PASM controller with the DSC, it's 15 mins, including the video and figuring the latch out. Then, go drive on familiar roads. Enjoy!
I installed the DSC in my 997.2 C4S six-speed with 38K mile OEM suspension. It made a world of difference. I strongly recommend you install and drive the DSC before deciding on what you want to do next. I wanted B16 coil-overs, to experience the best 997.2 suspension for rural high-speed driving. But, now, the DSC has improved my ride and handling. And TBH, B-16s are about $4K - $5K installed, I am reconsidering that goal. I am not a good enough, nor reckless enough, driver to drive at 8/10s on the street. And then I'd want a Tubi and HREs, and that's overboard for this car. Nice as it is, another $15K would not be well-spent.
So, when the shocks need to be replaced, I will use Bilstein performance parts and upgrade my suspension. Maybe I'll lower it with the Bilstein B-12 Pro-Kit. That's a a set of Eibach springs and special B8 shocks that are set up for the more acute suspension angle. That's closer to $1700 OTS and maybe $2500 installed. Expensive as a mod, but when the car needs suspension work, it's just maintenance with performance parts. Document that and everything else you do to the car. The next owner will appreciate it.
IMHO, despite the natural desire to make one's Porsche the best it can be, there are often better options. For what I have spent, and still want to spend, on my C4S, I should have just bought a GTS, Turbo, or maybe a 996 GT3 in the first place.
I look at my 997 as a hobby, so voluntary expenditures, like Numeric pedals and maybe Cypher door handles, are what I'm not spending on Real-Tree clothing, golf, or pro sports. I'll never see most of the money again, but I'm having a blast with this car. The next owner is going to appreciate what I've done and how the previous owners and I have cared for it.
Something else to consider would be performance engine mounts. This will tighten up the handling feel by holding the engine and transaxle more firmly to the chassis. I chose Rennline Adjustable Semi-Solid engine mounts. I will probably try a few different combinations next year.
997.2 C4S
Last edited by Darkhorse; 01-13-2021 at 06:32 PM.
Reason: clarity
Take my advice, watch a YouTube video and then go swap out your PASM controller with the DSC, it's 15 mins, including the video and figuring the latch out. Then, go drive on familiar roads. Enjoy!
I installed the DSC in my 997.2 C4S six-speed with 38K mile OEM suspension. It made a world of difference. I strongly recommend you install and drive the DSC before deciding on what you want to do next. I wanted B16 coil-overs, to experience the best 997.2 suspension for rural high-speed driving. But, now, the DSC has improved my ride and handling. And TBH, B-16s are about $4K - $5K installed, I am reconsidering that goal. I am not a good enough, nor reckless enough, driver to drive at 8/10s on the street. And then I'd want a Tubi and HREs, and that's overboard for this car. Nice as it is, another $15K would not be well-spent.
So, when the shocks need to be replaced, I will use Bilstein performance parts and upgrade my suspension. Maybe I'll lower it with the Bilstein B-12 Pro-Kit. That's a a set of Eibach springs and special B8 shocks that are set up for the more acute suspension angle. That's closer to $1700 OTS and maybe $2500 installed. Expensive as a mod, but when the car needs suspension work, it's just maintenance with performance parts. Document that and everything else you do to the car. The next owner will appreciate it.
IMHO, despite the natural desire to make one's Porsche the best it can be, there are often better options. For what I have spent, and still want to spend, on my C4S, I should have just bought a GTS, Turbo, or maybe a 996 GT3 in the first place.
I look at my 997 as a hobby, so voluntary expenditures, like Numeric pedals and maybe Cypher door handles, are what I'm not spending on Real-Tree clothing, golf, or pro sports. I'll never see most of the money again, but I'm having a blast with this car. The next owner is going to appreciate what I've done and how the previous owners and I have cared for it.
Something else to consider would be performance engine mounts. This will tighten up the handling feel by holding the engine and transaxle more firmly to the chassis. I chose Rennline Adjustable Semi-Solid engine mounts. I will probably try a few different combinations next year.
997.2 C4S
Very good advice IMHO.
First thing you'll notice with the DSC is less rear squat when starting. Especially noticeable when turning left across traffic from a stop sign and accelerating quickly. From there play with the software. I was looking at B16s. I'm not anymore.
Motor mounts were major as well. Cheap and an easy DIY. The back end gets a lot tighter.
Extending from the motor, the transmission mounts made very little difference but when you compare them to the originals you'll be glad you did them.
First thing you'll notice with the DSC is less rear squat when starting. Especially noticeable when turning left across traffic from a stop sign and accelerating quickly. From there play with the software. I was looking at B16s. I'm not anymore.
Motor mounts were major as well. Cheap and an easy DIY. The back end gets a lot tighter.
Extending from the motor, the transmission mounts made very little difference but when you compare them to the originals you'll be glad you did them.
Sway bars are next for my 2010 C4S.
You're getting there Wayne 👍.
I just ordered the Tarett monoball rear top mounts to replace the only oem piece left in my suspension, that's now clunking. Going to upgrade the amp in my sub box to a stronger one that will better drive the Focal Utopia subs I installed while I'm pulling stuff out back there. They will support and RMS rating of 60-150 watts and the current Alpine amp is only 60. The new one is 250 so I'll dial the gain back to just past half and then use the bass boost remote **** I had already installed.
I just ordered the Tarett monoball rear top mounts to replace the only oem piece left in my suspension, that's now clunking. Going to upgrade the amp in my sub box to a stronger one that will better drive the Focal Utopia subs I installed while I'm pulling stuff out back there. They will support and RMS rating of 60-150 watts and the current Alpine amp is only 60. The new one is 250 so I'll dial the gain back to just past half and then use the bass boost remote **** I had already installed.
So tell all of us again how the radio doesn't matter to you!!!!!!!!!
I didn't realize you still had anything original in your suspension. "Bruce" did a great write up per his usual on changing those top mounts although you probably know all you need. But he did find a couple tricks to make it easier on the second side.
@Darkhorse and @Wayne Smith that's exactly what I'm going to do with the DSC...it's an easy hook-up, to be sure. I had decided when I got the car this summer that I wanted to drive it for a season as-is to appreciate what it was meant to be, and I have no regrets. The car is a blast with no mods, truth be told.
In the meantime, and from strictly a cosmetic perspective, I knew that I wanted to lower it a tad...about one fingers-worth, hence ordering the Eibachs. The DSC was a no-brainer based upon this forum alone.
The Eibachs are the springs in the B12 kit. I am now at the point where it's a matter of deciding whether to get the B4s (standard OEM) or the B8s that are in the B12 kit (Bilstein needs a Marketer). While the B8s have the correct/better/proper geometry for lowered springs/are paired with the Eibachs, I'm pretty happy with the way the car rides. So I don't know exactly which I'll do. @Iceter's suggestion was to try the Eibachs with my current B4s before deciding to switch to the B8s, which makes sense. I'll have the DSC installed before modding anything and that will help me decide.
Edit: Yes, new engine mounts are in the future...not sure which yet. Lots of pros and cons on the major brands.
What I do know is that I won't be going down the coil-over rabbit hole or doing anything too extreme to Darkhorse's point. That's not a slight on anyone who does it -- to each their own. I chose the C2S because it had a pretty nice equilibrium of ride, handling, power and 'rawness' (for lack of a better word) that I found intoxicating. It was just what I was looking for. Not going to stray too terribly far from that formula.
@Darkhorse and @Wayne Smith that's exactly what I'm going to do with the DSC...it's an easy hook-up, to be sure. I had decided when I got the car this summer that I wanted to drive it for a season as-is to appreciate what it was meant to be, and I have no regrets. The car is a blast with no mods, truth be told.
In the meantime, and from strictly a cosmetic perspective, I knew that I wanted to lower it a tad...about one fingers-worth, hence ordering the Eibachs. The DSC was a no-brainer based upon this forum alone.
The Eibachs are the springs in the B12 kit. I am now at the point where it's a matter of deciding whether to get the B4s (standard OEM) or the B8s that are in the B12 kit (Bilstein needs a Marketer). While the B8s have the correct/better/proper geometry for lowered springs/are paired with the Eibachs, I'm pretty happy with the way the car rides. So I don't know exactly which I'll do. @Iceter's suggestion was to try the Eibachs with my current B4s before deciding to switch to the B8s, which makes sense. I'll have the DSC installed before modding anything and that will help me decide.
Edit: Yes, new engine mounts are in the future...not sure which yet. Lots of pros and cons on the major brands.
What I do know is that I won't be going down the coil-over rabbit hole or doing anything too extreme to Darkhorse's point. That's not a slight on anyone who does it -- to each their own. I chose the C2S because it had a pretty nice equilibrium of ride, handling, power and 'rawness' (for lack of a better word) that I found intoxicating. It was just what I was looking for. Not going to stray too terribly far from that formula.
Thx to all!
Bob
Motor mounts ... I went with the 3 insert option to allow some room to play. I started with the hardest option and never looked back. If anything is go harder.
I also went with black (hardest) transmission mounts and came away without any reason to go softer.
So tell all of us again how the radio doesn't matter to you!!!!!!!!!
I didn't realize you still had anything original in your suspension. "Bruce" did a great write up per his usual on changing those top mounts although you probably know all you need. But he did find a couple tricks to make it easier on the second side.
Not sure I was the one that said the radio didn't matter. And why I replaced all my speakers with Focsls. I like the radio, what I don't care about is how good the phone sounds via Bluetooth.
I'll find Bruce's write-up before I dig in. Tips to make things easy are always appreciated. Thinking I can just put the coil spring compressors on the springs with them still installed to just change the top mounts, but we'll see. That top mount is the last piece.
Motor mounts ... I went with the 3 insert option to allow some room to play. I started with the hardest option and never looked back. If anything is go harder.
I also went with black (hardest) transmission mounts and came away without any reason to go softer.
@Wayne Smith which brands did you end up going with (engine and transmission)?
I'm sure I read it in earlier posts of yours...having a 'seasoned moment.'
Not sure I was the one that said the radio didn't matter. And why I replaced all my speakers with Focsls. I like the radio, what I don't care about is how good the phone sounds via Bluetooth.
I'll find Bruce's write-up before I dig in. Tips to make things easy are always appreciated. Thinking I can just put the coil spring compressors on the springs with them still installed to just change the top mounts, but we'll see. That top mount is the last piece.
Sorry about the radio. My Android interface interchanges people's name's on various posts so I sometimes think someone said something that really should have been attributed to someone else.
We needed to take the rear interior apart to remove things before pulling some linkage to get the struts out so we could use the spring compressor. Grant was doing the hard work and did the write up so his memory is better than mine regarding the details.
Not really an install but my dad (‘89 911) got me some coco mats for Xmas. They look awesome! So glad I did the black as works nice with the gray leather. Only got fronts but after seeing them in I’m going to get rears.
It's pretty powerful for what it is. Comes in very handy when doing wheel bolts/nuts too. Plus the battery lasts forever. Best couple hundred bucks I've spent for sure and highly recommend this and the cordless rachet
01-13-2021, 06:11 PM
DSC & an opinion because I'm in the mood to write
