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Hi All,
Looking to purchase my first Porsche and I think i might have found that opportunity. Sourced a 2007 997.1 Targa 4 Tip, w/ ~45k miles in mechanically good condition. There are some wear and tear items and while i am not concerned too much about them, the sum of them could end up being costly. I just did a PPI today, with Borescope, and I have attached a summary from the shop below. My comments and questions:
1. Bore Scope inspection showed that the cylinder walls look excellent.
2. DME shows no abnormal overrevs
3. TPMS light is on. Probably due to the aftermarket winter wheels/tires and potentially the wrong valve stems used. The original wheels and newer tires also come with the car so i'm not worried about that.
4. Brakes are 50-60% worn, normal wear on rotors.
5. Underside has some surface-level rust. Almost like the owner lives down a dirt road or parks the car outside. What can be done about this and at what cost? I'm sure it can be dressed and chemically treated to break down some of that rust and protect it. Thoughts?
6. Right-outer tail light inoperable - should be easy fix assuming that the assembly is not the issue but rather the light itself. Thoughts?
7. Dust Boots on front struts are torn.... Struts are fine though. Thoughts?
8: Exterior - Front bumper and driver fender seen some better days. Curb Rash. Bumps and scratches. Drivers side has a big gouge on the bumper. Lower front bumper is jacked up a bit, though, there is no evidence of an impact or evidence underneath per the PPI and per my conversation with the tech on the phone. Could be that the owner lives down a dirt road with branches given the swirls and scratches. Per the bumper/fender, I'm wondering what something like this would cost to repair or replace? The Tech believes that the swirls and scratches are not deep at all and can be mostly mitigated by a very thorough detail. Thoughts?
Ultimately, i'm really interested in the car. Given the above, i'd like to determine how I should frame my offer by ballparking the costs above. What do you think all the repairs add up to and do you have any concerns? Thank you everyone.
Last edited by Zingerman88; 10-24-2023 at 04:37 PM.
Hard to read the PPI Report however can you post DME Cam Deviation Report? ---->Important Cam Deviation within Spec
Answers to your questions:
1. Bore Scope inspection showed that the cylinder walls look excellent. *Where are the photos of Bore Scope Inspection - Shop should have provided you with at least 2 photos of each cylinder - DO NOT believe shop's word on this 2. DME shows no abnormal overrevs *Tiptronic doesn't have issue with Over-Revs as RPM's controlled by Trans--->Post Cam Deviation Report 3. TPMS light is on. Probably due to the aftermarket winter wheels/tires and potentially the wrong valve stems used. The original wheels and newer tires also come with the car so i'm not worried about that. *Very common & PITA - I had my Porsche Indy turn off my TPMS monitor through the DME 4. Brakes are 50-60% worn, normal wear on rotors. Ok 5. Underside has some surface-level rust. Almost like the owner lives down a dirt road or parks the car outside. What can be done about this and at what cost? I'm sure it can be dressed and chemically treated to break down some of that rust and protect it. Thoughts? *Check the Coil Heat Shields which are notorious for rusting/holes due to salt roads/wet roads driving 6. Right-outer tail light inoperable - should be easy fix assuming that the assembly is not the issue but rather the light itself. Thoughts? *SHould be easy replace bulf - Hopefully not electrical issue 7. Dust Boots on front struts are torn.... Struts are fine though. Thoughts? **Need to replace these asap - Not cheap prob $1500-$2000 TTL at Indy shop 8: Exterior - Front bumper and driver fender seen some better days. Curb Rash. Bumps and scratches. Drivers side has a big gouge on the bumper. Lower front bumper is jacked up a bit, though, there is no evidence of an impact or evidence underneath per the PPI and per my conversation with the tech on the phone. Could be that the owner lives down a dirt road with branches given the swirls and scratches. Per the bumper/fender, I'm wondering what something like this would cost to repair or replace? The Tech believes that the swirls and scratches are not deep at all and can be mostly mitigated by a very thorough detail. Thoughts? *Not great news---> Re-paint properly at high end shop will be costly.
Ultimately, i'm really interested in the car. Given the above, i'd like to determine how I should frame my offer by ballparking the costs above. What do you think all the repairs add up to and do you have any concerns? Thank you everyone
**Like I mentioned, I wouldn't trust shop on their word regarding Bore Scoring - Get the photos as documentation
To repair torn boots and repair paint issues you are probably looking at cost of $1500-$2000 for Axle Boots and at least $4000-$6000 to have paint repairs done properly. My Book "Art of the Grind" would be a good read for you
Cv boots I just had done. $1200 to repack and inspect. Majority labor. If you feel confident can prob be 1/4 of that.
TPMS: $3-400 if you want to replace. Otherwise can code out. Does seller have originals?
Rear light: I’d have this fixed prior. Electrical scares me due to $$$. I would somehow ensure it’s just the taillight itself and not the wiring, swap out the housing.
Body damage: Up to you.
Sounds like it’s a drivers car and not a show one. Normally I would put a targa 4 at around low 30s-45 depending on miles, options and condition. This is definitely sounding like a mid 30 thousand dollar car depending on options and color.
Sorry mate I'd walk. Sounds unloved, that's a lot of outstanding items at just 45 miles.
Not sure if you're set on a targa but there's a base 997.2 cab in toronto, manual, just 35k miles (wow) in beautiful aqua blue for about $50k usd. That feels a bitnof a bargain to me.
Hard to read the PPI Report however can you post DME Cam Deviation Report? ---->Important Cam Deviation within Spec
Answers to your questions:
1. Bore Scope inspection showed that the cylinder walls look excellent. *Where are the photos of Bore Scope Inspection - Shop should have provided you with at least 2 photos of each cylinder - DO NOT believe shop's word on this Waiting for pics as I just received it an hour ago. Given the shop's reputation, i don't feel the need to challenge them but I will verify with the pictures myself. I believe the inspection to be valid. 2. DME shows no abnormal overrevs *Tiptronic doesn't have issue withOver-Revs as RPM's controlled by Trans--->Post Cam Deviation Report Understood 3. TPMS light is on. Probably due to the aftermarket winter wheels/tires and potentially the wrong valve stems used. The original wheels and newer tires also come with the car so i'm not worried about that. *Very common & PITA - I had my Porsche Indy turn off my TPMS monitor through the DME Understood 4. Brakes are 50-60% worn, normal wear on rotors. Ok 5. Underside has some surface-level rust. Almost like the owner lives down a dirt road or parks the car outside. What can be done about this and at what cost? I'm sure it can be dressed and chemically treated to break down some of that rust and protect it. Thoughts? *Check the Coil Heat Shields which are notorious for rusting/holes due to salt roads/wet roads driving Thanks for the suggestion, I will ask the tech for specifics on the coil heat shields 6. Right-outer tail light inoperable - should be easy fix assuming that the assembly is not the issue but rather the light itself. Thoughts? *SHould be easy replace bulf - Hopefully not electrical issue Yep 7. Dust Boots on front struts are torn.... Struts are fine though. Thoughts? **Need to replace these asap - Not cheap prob $1500-$2000 TTL at Indy shop Didn't think it would be that much but understood. That is costly. 8: Exterior - Front bumper and driver fender seen some better days. Curb Rash. Bumps and scratches. Drivers side has a big gouge on the bumper. Lower front bumper is jacked up a bit, though, there is no evidence of an impact or evidence underneath per the PPI and per my conversation with the tech on the phone. Could be that the owner lives down a dirt road with branches given the swirls and scratches. Per the bumper/fender, I'm wondering what something like this would cost to repair or replace? The Tech believes that the swirls and scratches are not deep at all and can be mostly mitigated by a very thorough detail. Thoughts? *Not great news---> Re-paint properly at high end shop will be costly. I imagine it would be and by the sounds of it, there is much work to be done with the paint.
Ultimately, i'm really interested in the car. Given the above, i'd like to determine how I should frame my offer by ballparking the costs above. What do you think all the repairs add up to and do you have any concerns? Thank you everyone
**Like I mentioned, I wouldn't trust shop on their word regarding Bore Scoring - Get the photos as documentation
To repair torn boots and repair paint issues you are probably looking at cost of $1500-$2000 for Axle Boots and at least $4000-$6000 to have paint repairs done properly. My Book "Art of the Grind" would be a good read for you
The targa 4s 997.1 & 2's are quite rare and command quite a premium. The 997.1 base targa, not so much. There are few examples for sale but given that it's TIP and a non "S", i don't see it collecting value. To your point, It is sounding like a high 30's car.
Originally Posted by kellen
Cv boots I just had done. $1200 to repack and inspect. Majority labor. If you feel confident can prob be 1/4 of that.
TPMS: $3-400 if you want to replace. Otherwise can code out. Does seller have originals?
Rear light: I’d have this fixed prior. Electrical scares me due to $$$. I would somehow ensure it’s just the taillight itself and not the wiring, swap out the housing.
Body damage: Up to you.
Sounds like it’s a drivers car and not a show one. Normally I would put a targa 4 at around low 30s-45 depending on miles, options and condition. This is definitely sounding like a mid 30 thousand dollar car depending on options and color.
Sorry mate I'd walk. Sounds unloved, that's a lot of outstanding items at just 45 miles.
Not sure if you're set on a targa but there's a base 997.2 cab in toronto, manual, just 35k miles (wow) in beautiful aqua blue for about $50k usd. That feels a bitnof a bargain to me.
Appreciate the color and yes, i'm thinking of walking. Thanks for the note about the Cab, unfortunately i'm just really interested in Coupes and Targas at this point.
My humble advice is keep looking, this seller is nowhere near a reasonable price given the long, long list of work needed. Don't be afraid to go out of state if you have to.
Hunting for a Porsche is a joy.
Take your time - Lots of 997's will be hitting the market this fall/winter. Only buy from private party.
Also economy tanking - Many sellers gonna be offering deals.
May have missed it, but you may also want to ask the shop if they scoped from the plug or the sump. Will make a difference in terms of what the results are. Typically worse scoring will be seen from the sump than the plug.
May have missed it, but you may also want to ask the shop if they scoped from the plug or the sump. Will make a difference in terms of what the results are. Typically worse scoring will be seen from the sump than the plug.
They scoped from the plug, not the sump. Good point though!
Just wanted thank everyone for all the helpful comments. The knowledge here is incredible and I appreciate all the feedback. That said, I've decided to hold off and pursue a 992 Targa or 4S coupe early next year - a good example this time. Till next year!
Base model with issues and heavy, rattly glass Targa roof with Tiptronic transmission - there's not much desirable about that car in that condition and certainly not at that price. It's $15-20k too high - they'll have it for a long time until they move it along to auction.
Base model with issues and heavy, rattly glass Targa roof with Tiptronic transmission - there's not much desirable about that car in that condition and certainly not at that price. It's $15-20k too high - they'll have it for a long time until they move it along to auction.
10-24-2023, 04:35 PM
997.1 Targa 4 - Pre Purchase Questions
