Documenting My Flat 6 Innovations Build
11-28-2021, 03:27 PM
#31
There's no "just" to that statement. Anything that diffuses, or interrupts airflow into the radiators has been proven (in my direct experience) to make a negative on coolant and oil temperatures.
All it took was two laps and 50 miles on the road with a 16 channel stand alone data logger to determine this, with both stock and modified engines. The factory left these inlets open for a reason, and while not everything the factory did with these cars is smart, this one is.
Guess what? the radiators still get dirty even with the grilles in place. We remove the bumper and clean radiators in every car that we prepare an engine for. There are no positives from these, except they make the owner feel like they've out smarted the factory.
All it took was two laps and 50 miles on the road with a 16 channel stand alone data logger to determine this, with both stock and modified engines. The factory left these inlets open for a reason, and while not everything the factory did with these cars is smart, this one is.
Guess what? the radiators still get dirty even with the grilles in place. We remove the bumper and clean radiators in every car that we prepare an engine for. There are no positives from these, except they make the owner feel like they've out smarted the factory.
11-28-2021, 03:32 PM
#32
Former Vendor
I've never seen road debris take out a radiator only. If you have an issue that would create a problem for the radiator, it would simultaneously do damage to the car that would be more traumatic.
Use the CSF center radiator, it is aluminum and stronger than every part of the car that surrounds it.
I don't know why cleaning the radiators of debris annually is a big deal, it can be done with 3 tools in under an hour, without even using a jack to lift the car. People want to avoid that, so they do more damage by diffusing the charge air, plus the radiators still get dirty.
Use the CSF center radiator, it is aluminum and stronger than every part of the car that surrounds it.
I don't know why cleaning the radiators of debris annually is a big deal, it can be done with 3 tools in under an hour, without even using a jack to lift the car. People want to avoid that, so they do more damage by diffusing the charge air, plus the radiators still get dirty.
11-28-2021, 03:33 PM
#33
I've never seen road debris take out a radiator only. If you have an issue that would create a problem for the radiator, it would simultaneously do damage to the car that would be more traumatic.
Use the CSF center radiator, it is aluminum and stronger than every part of the car that surrounds it.
I don't know why cleaning the radiators of debris annually is a big deal, it can be done with 3 tools in under an hour, without even using a jack to lift the car. People want to avoid that, so they do more damage by diffusing the charge air, plus the radiators still get dirty.
Use the CSF center radiator, it is aluminum and stronger than every part of the car that surrounds it.
I don't know why cleaning the radiators of debris annually is a big deal, it can be done with 3 tools in under an hour, without even using a jack to lift the car. People want to avoid that, so they do more damage by diffusing the charge air, plus the radiators still get dirty.
11-28-2021, 03:33 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
That’s why I never put the screens on my 997 or Boxster before that. The only thing that puzzles me is why Porsche does install these screen protectors on their GT3 cars from the factory. In fact, now it seems they have the active grill louvers that open and close depending on if the engine is heating up or not/speed dependent (for the non GT cars now too). The good one good thing I guess about the screens is that it can protect against a stone hitting so hard that it puts a hole in your radiator thus making you lose coolant.
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plpete84 (11-29-2021)
11-28-2021, 03:38 PM
#35
That’s why I never put the screens on my 997 or Boxster before that. The only thing that puzzles me is why Porsche does install these screen protectors on their GT3 cars from the factory. In fact, now it seems they have the active grill louvers that open and close depending on if the engine is heating up or not/speed dependent (for the non GT cars now too). The good one good thing I guess about the screens is that it can protect against a stone hitting so hard that it puts a hole in your radiator thus making you lose coolant.
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Carreralicious (11-28-2021)
11-28-2021, 10:24 PM
#37
These tests have been done for .1 cars. We still haven't seen studies to indicate if .2 cars have a problem like this or not. I've heard from some that the 9A1 knock sensor is different and stiffer motor mounts will not affect it adversely. But, again, I don't know if there is any data indicating either case.
11-30-2021, 09:03 AM
#38
Former Vendor
Lots of them.. Aftermarket bumpers, short shifters and "cold air" intakes are the biggest, aside from the things we are discussing here. What you will find is that most of these items were "designed" to fit in place, and either look cool, or sound cool. Very few of them are actually developed by anyone that develops engines, and has the ability to compare the behaviors, or collect the proper data. Why? Because development is the most expensive, and time consuming part of bringing a product to market.
We get to see vehicles that have issues directly related to these under- performing components, and connect the dots with components that have been in place. I am by no means a purist, and I am actually a very proud part of the aftermarket for these engines, and cars. I just wish my peers would do their part to develop, and understand the products that they offer beyond just making them bolt on. I tell them this directly, and in doing so I don't make friends.
We get to see vehicles that have issues directly related to these under- performing components, and connect the dots with components that have been in place. I am by no means a purist, and I am actually a very proud part of the aftermarket for these engines, and cars. I just wish my peers would do their part to develop, and understand the products that they offer beyond just making them bolt on. I tell them this directly, and in doing so I don't make friends.
11-30-2021, 11:23 AM
#40
Lots of them.. Aftermarket bumpers, short shifters and "cold air" intakes are the biggest, aside from the things we are discussing here. What you will find is that most of these items were "designed" to fit in place, and either look cool, or sound cool. Very few of them are actually developed by anyone that develops engines, and has the ability to compare the behaviors, or collect the proper data. Why? Because development is the most expensive, and time consuming part of bringing a product to market.
We get to see vehicles that have issues directly related to these under- performing components, and connect the dots with components that have been in place. I am by no means a purist, and I am actually a very proud part of the aftermarket for these engines, and cars. I just wish my peers would do their part to develop, and understand the products that they offer beyond just making them bolt on. I tell them this directly, and in doing so I don't make friends.
We get to see vehicles that have issues directly related to these under- performing components, and connect the dots with components that have been in place. I am by no means a purist, and I am actually a very proud part of the aftermarket for these engines, and cars. I just wish my peers would do their part to develop, and understand the products that they offer beyond just making them bolt on. I tell them this directly, and in doing so I don't make friends.
02-19-2022, 10:01 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Hi all, just to update as I move through the process. Communication has been great, mostly via monthly newsletters from Jud. My “add-on” options opened up and I have until the end of the month to purchase those. I spent about an hour on Thursday talking through things with Jud, including shipping. Initially I was thinking I would drive the engine down in April when I go down for a bike race, but after talking with Jud that makes no sense. Shipping is included, I just pay for whatever insurance I want they take care of the rest including if any claim would be needed. They are also super accommodating in what type of drop off/pickup, since I don’t have a loading dock, it will be a lift gate. The plan for me is to get the engine out in mid-March and down to them ASAP so I don’t have to think about it moving forward.
So as for add ons. I have the Stage 2 build which gets me to .5oz of balancing, but something about making the engine as balanced as possible appeals to me, so for $450 I added “race level” balancing which gets me to .2oz. As preventatives I will be replacing all of the plastic tubing/hoses as it gets brittle with age ($250) and replacing the plastic H2O fitting with aluminum ($45). I want the IPD/GT3 throttle body, but as a premier build it is something I will have to do once I have the engine back, which isn’t a huge deal and I will source the plenum/TB on my own.
I am skipping a couple things that most people should do, in order to save $1500 as a reserve for any unexpected items once Jake gets the engine. I am skipping the starter and starter cable with the reasoning that mine are fine and I am in a situation where I have a lift and the know how to replace those items should they ever go bad, sure I am going to be mad at myself if that is the case, but I want to avoid the slippery “while I am in there slope” and save some $. I think for most people who are paying someone for the engine drop/install these items are a “must do” and perhaps I regret not doing them now as well.
Since I am not an exclusive customer I will be doing a couple other things once the motor is back to me. Replacing the coolant reservoir, engine mounts (I have to get rid of my RSS), and then ignition coils.
I will continue to update, so far the process has been just as described and in many ways better, especially when it comes to easing my shipping concerns, these guys have it dialed and you really worry about nothing.
So as for add ons. I have the Stage 2 build which gets me to .5oz of balancing, but something about making the engine as balanced as possible appeals to me, so for $450 I added “race level” balancing which gets me to .2oz. As preventatives I will be replacing all of the plastic tubing/hoses as it gets brittle with age ($250) and replacing the plastic H2O fitting with aluminum ($45). I want the IPD/GT3 throttle body, but as a premier build it is something I will have to do once I have the engine back, which isn’t a huge deal and I will source the plenum/TB on my own.
I am skipping a couple things that most people should do, in order to save $1500 as a reserve for any unexpected items once Jake gets the engine. I am skipping the starter and starter cable with the reasoning that mine are fine and I am in a situation where I have a lift and the know how to replace those items should they ever go bad, sure I am going to be mad at myself if that is the case, but I want to avoid the slippery “while I am in there slope” and save some $. I think for most people who are paying someone for the engine drop/install these items are a “must do” and perhaps I regret not doing them now as well.
Since I am not an exclusive customer I will be doing a couple other things once the motor is back to me. Replacing the coolant reservoir, engine mounts (I have to get rid of my RSS), and then ignition coils.
I will continue to update, so far the process has been just as described and in many ways better, especially when it comes to easing my shipping concerns, these guys have it dialed and you really worry about nothing.
Last edited by bgoetz; 02-19-2022 at 06:55 PM.
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02-19-2022, 11:22 AM
#42
Super excited for you. I've signed up for an R package engine with an unknown timeline. Which is fine with me. But your experience has made this even more exciting. Thanks for the updates!!
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Scalp_em (02-21-2022)
02-19-2022, 01:33 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
That is awesome! I will be excited to follow your experience and outcome an R-series would be sick!
02-21-2022, 11:47 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
I just chose my options as well…(Oct completion date) @bgoetz I hope you don’t mind but instead of creating another thread I figured I would share my experiences with FSI and my stage II 4.0 build here as well since our completion dates are right next to eachother 
I must say the options are great! There are optional performace items, track specific options and while you are there( engine already dropped) preventative maintenance items which are great! I kind of wish I would have known what was available a little sooner in the process because some the “while you are there” items I have already done in the past year while on the wait list (New Starter and cable, new coolant tank etc) I might have waited to get done while my car was at FSI. I get it though, they wait until you are getting closer to your build because they want to make sure they will have those optional parts available so it all stays on time. I appreciate that especially in the current climate where parts aren’t always available or the pricing of those items may go up because of current economic conditions. I guess my advice for those that are on the waiting list and have not got to the point to where you get to order options, check in with Jud or Jake before you do any elective preventative maintenance and ask if they expect to have those items in stock and available when they are working on your build.
Now for the fun part…I don’t really plan to track the car just drive spiritedly on back country roads and travel to some driving destinations and do some more spirited driving. So the options I chose, I chose to get the most out of the Road part of the Stage II Road and Track performer 4.0. I too elected for the race balancing for the same reasoning Bgoetz provided above. I am also replacing all of the plastic tubing/hoses and replacing the plastic H2O fitting with aluminum. Because I already had pretty much all the “Bolt ons” I wanted already installed ( SOUL hi flo cats and headers, Fister mufflers, IPD plenum/GT3 TB) I elected to get the premium Dyno tuning by FSI. I also elected to get a couple of other performance options that they offered. Communication was great with FSI and they answered all my questions and offered great advice to make sure I had the right options for a bad ***, max optioned 4.0 Stage II Street Performer.
For those looking to build a track beast, they also had a great list of add ons that most track focused people would want to have on their 997 911, so if you didn’t already have it you could add it then. The pricing was reasonable and there was absolutely no pressure one way or the other for adding options. Again for me it made no sense to add those track focused items and they were things that if I wanted to track my car down the road, could be added no problem.
My experience so far has been 100% first class. October can’t get here soon enough
I must say the options are great! There are optional performace items, track specific options and while you are there( engine already dropped) preventative maintenance items which are great! I kind of wish I would have known what was available a little sooner in the process because some the “while you are there” items I have already done in the past year while on the wait list (New Starter and cable, new coolant tank etc) I might have waited to get done while my car was at FSI. I get it though, they wait until you are getting closer to your build because they want to make sure they will have those optional parts available so it all stays on time. I appreciate that especially in the current climate where parts aren’t always available or the pricing of those items may go up because of current economic conditions. I guess my advice for those that are on the waiting list and have not got to the point to where you get to order options, check in with Jud or Jake before you do any elective preventative maintenance and ask if they expect to have those items in stock and available when they are working on your build.
Now for the fun part…I don’t really plan to track the car just drive spiritedly on back country roads and travel to some driving destinations and do some more spirited driving. So the options I chose, I chose to get the most out of the Road part of the Stage II Road and Track performer 4.0. I too elected for the race balancing for the same reasoning Bgoetz provided above. I am also replacing all of the plastic tubing/hoses and replacing the plastic H2O fitting with aluminum. Because I already had pretty much all the “Bolt ons” I wanted already installed ( SOUL hi flo cats and headers, Fister mufflers, IPD plenum/GT3 TB) I elected to get the premium Dyno tuning by FSI. I also elected to get a couple of other performance options that they offered. Communication was great with FSI and they answered all my questions and offered great advice to make sure I had the right options for a bad ***, max optioned 4.0 Stage II Street Performer.
For those looking to build a track beast, they also had a great list of add ons that most track focused people would want to have on their 997 911, so if you didn’t already have it you could add it then. The pricing was reasonable and there was absolutely no pressure one way or the other for adding options. Again for me it made no sense to add those track focused items and they were things that if I wanted to track my car down the road, could be added no problem.
My experience so far has been 100% first class. October can’t get here soon enough
Last edited by Scalp_em; 02-21-2022 at 12:03 PM.
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TerrestrialFlyte (02-21-2022)
