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When I was trying to decide what route to go on an engine there was a lot of info out there about rebuilds, but it was intermixed in many different threads and there wasn’t one thread that documented an FSI build from start to finish (at least not that I could find). So, since I made the choice to go to FSI I figured I would start a post documenting the process. Sorry it is long, the rest hopefully will be shorter
For more info on my situation (note that this post isn’t meant to debate what is wrong with my engine, although it will be updated once Jake has it apart).
I looked into a couple of different options including Vision, LN, a great local Indy, and then FSI. At the end of the day I wasn’t comfortable with the steel sleeves Vision uses, they may work great, but I didn’t like the idea. Plus a stage 2 Vision build would require a new upgraded clutch/flywheel (not a dual mass which I am also not comfortable with) and then I would need a local tunner to tune the car. All of that was a deal breaker. LN would be a nice option for someone who didn’t want a performance gain, but if I am spending the $ I am getting what I want. Plus while I think LN is great FSI builds use proprietary components in their builds, which makes them different. My local Indy was a close 2nd, I think he would have done a great job and could have gotten it done sooner, however cost was pretty close, possibly more if you compared “apples to apples”. Plus while his build would probably bring local value if I were to resell the car in the future, FSI is nationally known.
Why did I choose FSI? As you can read a bit more about below their process is insanely detailed with an extreme focus on consistency down to every detail and Jake seems to be a guy who won’t deviate for anyone or any amount of $$$. This might be a turn off for some, but it was a big plus for me. I work in with quality management at a manufacturing facility and the key to quality of a product is having a well defined procedure from the very first step and then following the procedures. This gives me confidence that I am going to receive a quality engine. This is further supported by the fact that there are no complaints about FSI builds, at least not that I could find. The other positive is that as mentioned above FSI builds include a lot of proprietary details that no one else can replicate. All of this left me feeling like I am buying an engine that has the possibility of adding value to the car, however to be clear this is not something I am “banking” on when doing this build.
On to the process. I had opened a ticket on FSI to talk with Jake about my issues, you really can’t communicate with them any other way, the ticket system helps them organize communication and you use your original ticket to message back and forth FOREVER so you can always access old correspondence. Before Jake would even talk specifics of the engine he asked that I watch their 3hr webinar, my first thoughts were “this guy is nuts if he thinks I am watching 3hrs, I will just watch enough to get info I want”. I watched the whole thing, it is super informative including the questions at the end and a “must watch” for anyone considering this route.
During our communication I inquired about availability should the worst be found with my engine, it was then Jake informed me that he had one slot open for 2022 and isn’t taking any builds for 2023 until he gets a handle on cost projections. Admittedly this did put me at a decision point, however shortly after having that correspondence with Jake via the ticket, my phone rings and it is Jake to talk to me about the situation. During that conversation he said no less than 3 times that he didn’t want me to make a decision based on feeling pressured, he was more concerned with me making a bad choice than I was. We talked through next steps for me to further investigate, while Judd would send me a welcome package for me to fill out. Between the 3 day period to get the welcome package back and the another few days to get the proposal and payment back I could basically hold the date for 10 days before he would have my $. Note that even if I wanted to skip all of this and “book” a build over the phone at that moment, you can’t do that, it isn’t how the process works.
The welcome package asked a lot of detailed and candid questions down to what would my reaction be if the engine he built me blew up day one. It also asks about all modifications. I completed the welcome package and got it back to Jake and the very next day I get a message from Jake that he has concerns and wants to talk. We setup a call for 12 and talked through all of the details of the questionnaire and his concerns, which were my grill covers, my intake, and my RSS mounts all of which have to be removed. I think had I said “no” we would have been done there, but in the scheme of things it wasn’t a big deal and I get to keep my AWE exhaust/HFC. This conversation lasted an hour where Jake talked with me about his company, his process, we talked more about my specific issues, and he answered any questions I had. It probably would have lasted longer, but I had to jump off for a meeting. Throughout the conversation he was as much feeling me out if he wanted me as a customer as I was making sure FSI was right for me. We did talk warranty and track use and one thing that is a bit of negative is that once it hits the track the warranty is gone, but let’s be real you risk more than an engine on the track. Plus by the time I am through the break in period and ready to track the car I will be to the end of the warranty that comes with the engine. The one notable thing was that not once did Jake ask what engine I wanted, I think since I marked that I track the car I was locked into the stage 2 track engine, I don’t think he would have sold me the lesser engine even had I wanted and agreed to take the risk.
Next you receive a detailed proposal outlining what they are delivering for you and what you are providing for them. I have access to a lift and have a good bit of mechanical knowledge, so I will be acting as my own certified installer and doing the engine removal and installation. I have to have FSI my engine by June 2022 for it to be returned by September 2022. I did have the option to add a tighter level of engine balancing to the already tight tolerance of the track engine, to add CP pistons, or to add additional tuning to the tuning that Jake will do with me once I have the engine back and installed. I didn’t select any upgrades because I am already in debt in terms of my “fun money” and I think the package you get with the stage 2 track engine is pretty darn good “as is”. You do get a new clutch and AOS with the engine, this is something that not all builders will offer. In addition to the proposal I got a warranty agreement where I agreed to all of the details of the warranty. Once I submitted the proposal I received an invoice for 1/3 of the payment, which I paid. It should be noted that I didn’t take advantage of the full 10 days I could have to make sure this is what I wanted to do, TBH given my observations this is something that would need done regardless if the scoring I observed is the source of the knock or I would have to disclose the scoring upon selling the car. I love the car and the only other replacement I could see is a 997.x GT3 and this gets me as much hp and more torque as a 997.1 GT3 for a fraction of the cost. Sure it isn’t a GT3, but it is my 997, will be special in its own way, and will be something I can enjoy with my family for years to come, including my daughter who loves to ride in the back.
So far the experience is top notch and I will continue to update as I move through the process.
I would venture a guess that most builders are not going to this level 7 months before they are to receive the customers engine none the less!
We have no choice. I have every proposed part, for every engine (except 3 sets of custom cams for (R- Series engines) in hand through 2022. This means that currently I have everything on- hand, and in the customer's bins through December of 2022, more than 1 year ahead of scheduled completion. At times I had parts for 19 months ahead of scheduled builds.
As soon as C19 hit we went into hyper- drive, and acted with vigor to get every part we needed through 2021 proposed builds, all of which were already sold. I maintained that level of pursuit, sourcing every part possible, so we would not be making excuses like everyone else has. The result has been 100% on- time deliveries with every engine since Covid hit, and some of them were 2 weeks early. I worked every day even when I was sick with Covid, and no one even knew it.
Hell, I even held a scheduled zoom meeting with all my 2022 purchasers while I was still Covid positive, and didn't tell anyone till the end of the meeting when I threw up my + test results from that morning. I could do this because I isolated myself from the rest of the crew completely when Covid became a thing, it was part of creating stand alone working stations for each crew member with no personal interaction in any capacity. I did this so if someone got sick, there's no way it could spread and take the whole crew out of action. This was effective, and due to these measures we've not given any excuses to anyone about being late, or leaving jobs incomplete. You will not find that anywhere else, and it certainly not what is being experienced in the circles associated with these engines from other providers. This is partly due to the fact that we took all the parts from the other guys while they were asleep at the wheel, and I maintain dominance through aggressive acquisitions that at times have required buying vehicles abroad just so I could pack them with M9X parts, add them to the bill of lading, and use these vehicles as shipping containers just so we could get the parts. Importers stopped being effective, and there were more parts available in local parts houses in Europe and Asia than the importers here in the USA had. Until you have bought a vehicle that you didn't even want, just so you could acquire parts, you haven't lived a life like mine.. There are no shipping containers to be had, so RORO vehicle shipping gave us an edge that no one else thought about. Now we've depleted everything abroad, so I can share how I was able to do this without fear.
I opened sales up for 2023 Q1 M9X completions 4 weeks ago, and held a webinar for that engine program. This resulted in 22 requests for a welcome package, of which I accepted 19 of the builds. We had parts in hand, or on dedicated allocation for around 24 engines, so that took care of Q1 2023. Of the 19 I accepted, I had 3 guys flake out once the proposal was in their hands, so that perfectly booked Q1 as far as M9X builds went. The rest of 2023 will be dedicated to aircooled and 9a1 builds with a few 996/997/991 turbos in the mix, but I probably have enough remaining parts to get us through Q2 M9X builds, and I'll have a webinar about that program in mid- January 2022. I already have 12 names on the wait list for this webinar, but parts are not being manufactured, and likely won't be, so the line will be tagged at some point. We are spearheading more manufacturing of USA made components, and LN has added even more machines to their arsenal this year, so we don't need the OEM support or supply chain. I am handling each quarter like a whole new program, as prices go up, and supply goes down. This way things are more work, but we don't get caught with our pants down, like we would if I were only making annual program changes in regard to parts inclusions, and prices.
It has been my goal to utilize Covid as a tool, and I did this as soon as I saw the first impacts. Why? Because even in chaos lies opportunity. You just have to be crazy enough to do what the other guy doesn't. They are too lazy, and lack the crazy. This has been, and will continue to be their downfall~
Lots of people that didn't choose my program "because it took a long time" still don't have their car more than a year after the delivery date was missed by the other guy. They were told what they wanted to hear, and their decision bit them in the ***. These people have slowly started to come to me looking for a bail out, but they screwed themselves, and even if I could help them- I wouldn't.
I'll be shadowing your story as you share. But if I put myself in your shoes the first thing that comes to mind is WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY WITH while you wait? Got a cheap little grin machine you can ring its neck while you dream?
I'll be shadowing your story as you share. But if I put myself in your shoes the first thing that comes to mind is WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY WITH while you wait? Got a cheap little grin machine you can ring its neck while you dream?
I do, so I think I could at least act brave. Lol
Congratulations.
Haha, I have an S4 with a stage 1 tune as a daily, it is a beast, probably faster than the 911. I may track that a time or two, but if I break another expensive German car this thread might mysteriously just stop and no one may ever hear from me again 😂.
I am also a cyclist and have been getting back into racing, this year the first in a while, so instead of tracking the 911, I will put more into that and maybe be faster next year.
nice! you and i are on the same timeline...i literally finished dropping my motor yesterday, just getting it ready to put on a pallet and ship to FSI...my experience mirrors yours and in today's world is quite confidence inspiring...
they need motor by aug 22 and projected completion date is nov 22 so i'm ahead of schedule...gonna do some body work and other interior things while i have all this downtime though...
i don't have an S4, but i do have two b7 rs4's that will keep me busy until i get the motor back =p
nice! you and i are on the same timeline...i literally finished dropping my motor yesterday, just getting it ready to put on a pallet and ship to FSI...my experience mirrors yours and in today's world is quite confidence inspiring...
they need motor by aug 22 and projected completion date is nov 22 so i'm ahead of schedule...gonna do some body work and other interior things while i have all this downtime though...
i don't have an S4, but i do have two b7 rs4's that will keep me busy until i get the motor back =p
You are early!! I like that cart, do you have a link?
But jonan already dropped his motor. It's still 2021 😳🤣
I might be the one confused of course.
We have to get this engine soon, since it appears to be suffering from extreme internal damage, and could take months to find the required core replacement components. We have to be way ahead of the game when an M97.01 breaks like this, since they all need the same parts, and they don't exist.
Thanks for the detailed account of your experiences.. What you have experienced is exactly what I have created to guide people down our path.. No pressure, no rushing, no BS, and no sales hype define us.
Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 08-15-2021 at 02:21 AM.
... and his concerns, which were my grill covers, my intake, and my RSS mounts all of which have to be removed. I think had I said “no” we would have been done there, but in the scheme of things it wasn’t a big deal and I get to keep my AWE exhaust/HFC.
If I ever find the cash I'll definitely be looking at an FSI engine.
But I have a question. Why doesn't he like the RSS engine mounts?
08-14-2021, 07:18 PM
Documenting My Flat 6 Innovations Build
