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It's been awhile since my last update. I've had the opportunity to put some miles on the car with the new headers. Unfortunately, I can't recommend the Top Speed headers with cats. They sound terrific and in normal city driving, they are fine but after spirited driving and the engine is hot, they throw an O2 sensor CEL. It's happened twice already and I ended up having to install O2 sensor spacers, similar to these (https://www.urotuning.com/products/u...#collapse-tab5) to prevent the CEL. This shouldn't happen with quality cats and is totally unacceptable. In Deschutes County Oregon, I can legally run without cats but I wanted headers with cats in case I ever sell in the future. But these headers are a waste of money and I could have effectively just bought catless performance headers.
To their credit, Top Speed sent me a pair of spacers for free after I complained. But the spacers they sent are straight and don't provide enough clearance for the actual sensors, which is why you need J-style/90-degree spacers. I know no aftermarket manufacturer guarantees that there will be no CEL, but they could at least recommend installing spacers as a precaution. It's much easier to install the spacers when you install the headers versus doing it after the fact. Lesson learned. You get what you pay for and buyer beware.
On another note, I bought a set of black Lobster wheels and Pirelli Sottozero snow tires to use as a winter setup. It snows a lot in Bend and this setup will allow me to extend my driving season. Plus I have a couple trips planned to CA and WA over the winter which require getting through some passes. For some reason, Lobsters are love them/hate them, but I think these are some of the best OE wheels for 997s. Next project is to install a 3rd radiator kit. I'll post another update soon. Happy new year!
I pulled the trigger and got a set of LWBs from Carnewal. Total cost was a little over $10,400 after Euro conversion, including shipping. These are full leather ROW 991 versions with heat. The difference between these and 997 LWBs is the seat cushion has 3 sections instead of two. Plus they are heated, which you can't get in the 997 version. Because these are ROW, there is no sensor mat in the passenger seat so you will have to delete the resultant error code(s).
Gert is easy and great to work with and provides excellent customer service is. It takes about 5-7 business days to arrive from Europe. FedEx will require that you fill out a tax ID form for customs, which will hold up the process a couple days.
The seats arrived packaged well overall, but one of the rails was poking out the side of the box. Not sure how it affected seat rail alignment but installation was a PITA on the passenger seat. I used this DIY thread for guidance on the install (https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...moval-diy.html).
I have additional comments/tips if you plan on doing this install:
You need to pull the black tab to release the yellow connector for the seat all the way out in order to release the connector. It extends over an inch away from the connector and is a slide release. The final few 1/8ths of an inch locks the connector into place. This proved to be a PITA releasing the yellow connector from my stock passenger seat due to some interference. It required me to push the connector sideways significantly in order for it to release. Difficult to do when the seat is still in the car and tilted up. The seats that came with my car from the factory are ventilated/heated and perhaps that played a factor. YMMV.
There are two connectors that come out of the floor for the driver and passenger seat. Both seats have the same yellow connector and the other is rectangular and black for the driver side and square and grey for the passenger side. According to Gert at Carnewal, you only need to connect the yellow connectors on both seats and the second connectors are un-used and only for power seats. Just zip tie the other connector out of the way.
Alignment of the seat rails and holes was off by 1/2-1" on both seats. The passenger seat was the worst and required a lot of manipulation to align the holes. I'm wondering if one of them got bent in transit. Tighten the rear bolts first, slide the seats back, and then tighten the front bolts (at least for me). For factory seats, I expected the LWBs to drop right in and be aligned from the start.
LWBs are a tight fit in the cabin, especially the passenger side. They will slide forward/back just fine, but the interior side of the bolster rubs against the center console. If you have a painted console, that may be an issue.
I'm hoping the wrinkles in the leather on the headrests will relax and smooth out over time. The pics were taken right after I removed them from the box.
The original ventilated/heated seats weigh about 60lbs/ea. The LWBs weigh about 37 lbs/ea. I used my bathroom scale so take it for what it's worth.
Remember to vacuum your carpet and back area while the seats are out. Good opportunity to clean. Plus I found 35 cents!
I had LWBs in the GT3 and they are amazing and feel perfect for canyon carving. The only downside is ingress/egress. I navigate this by rotating my legs out first and then standing to get in/out. It helps minimize wear and tear on the bolsters. I also considered installing Recaro CS seats instead. They are over half the price of LWBs and look/feel almost as good. I think they are the best aftermarket seats available. But they are not factory seats and I was concerned about safety in case of a crash. Plus the brackets, sliders, and adjustment ***** require some fiddling to install and I didn't want to deal with the hassle.
If/when I sell my car, I will likely remove the LWBs and sell them separately. Given current market conditions, they should hold their value long-term.
My GTS came with ventilated/heated seats, not ***. I hate the stock seats and contrary to what you might think, they are uncomfortable on long-distance drives. I had bucket seats in my GT3 and knew what I was getting. If you are used to a more upgright position, I think you would like the buckets. Terrific bolstering and support, they are lighter than stock, and there is also the sexy factor. But they are narrow and fit may be an issue if you are not skinny. I am 5'10" and 165 lbs and they fit great. I am not sure of the comfort/fit for anyone over 180 lbs. YMMV.
I am going to install some LWB seat recliners by Torqued (https://images.torqued.io/images/pro...XKOyg13Uxl.jpg) on my passenger seat so it will be more comfortable for my GF. If you are not driving in these seats, I suspect they would be too upright for a passenger. I'll test fit them and see if I might like a set for my seat as well. It would be perfect if I could just get about and additional 5-10 degrees of recline. I suspect the Torqued product will recline it just a little too much for me. We'll see.
At least my new headers sound better, but yeah, if I had known about the CEL, I would have gone with catless headers. If/when I ever sell, the stock headers and seats will come with the car.
Originally Posted by Liste-Renn
Busta, you had 18-way *** before, right?
The LWBs are totally badass looking.
How do they compare comfort-wise with the OEM *** seats?
Condolences on the headers- at least you saved someone else the trouble/$$.
I am going to install some LWB seat recliners by Torqued (https://images.torqued.io/images/pro...XKOyg13Uxl.jpg) on my passenger seat so it will be more comfortable for my GF. If you are not driving in these seats, I suspect they would be too upright for a passenger. I'll test fit them and see if I might like a set for my seat as well. It would be perfect if I could just get about and additional 5-10 degrees of recline. I suspect the Torqued product will recline it just a little too much for me. We'll see.
At least my new headers sound better, but yeah, if I had known about the CEL, I would have gone with catless headers. If/when I ever sell, the stock headers and seats will come with the car.
This won't work. You have folding buckets - not LWBs. Save yourself the purchase - I looked into this. LWBs have a recline mechanism which the folding seats do not.
you can get 5 degrees of recline by cutting a foam yoga mat and putting a small section in the front of the seat underneath the cushion, it will give a bit of tilt.
The same can be done by adding some foam behind the backside cushion also. Torso gets moved forward and hamstrings move up = minor tilt
Great build thread! I have the same short shifter awaiting spring install. You mention a bit of play in neutral. The washers used in the shifter body to shift lever comnection are a cardboard like material (probably to reduce wear) and don't provide a tight enough fit. Swap them out for metal washers, should help with the play.
Yes, I've driven from WA and OR to CA and back twice in these seats and had no issues. But they are very upright like a proper driving position. I love to drive so it's no big deal, but if you like a more reclined position, these are proabably not the seats for you. The cushioning is fantastic as well. If you can, I recommend trying them out first before buying.
Originally Posted by misterdega
@Busta Rib Have you had long road trips in those seats (4 hours+)? Is it comfy for that long? They look great.
@Busta RibHave you had long road trips in those seats (4 hours+)? Is it comfy for that long? They look great.
Obviously not answering for Busta Rib's experiences but answering the general question based on my experience with the buckets. I bought a 2009 C4S launch car which came with the buckets from the factory. Bought it from Champion Porsche in Pompany Beach on Florida's east coast. Drove it back to my hometown of Sarasota on the west coast which was about a 3 1/2 hour drive.
Can't say with a straight face that the last half hour felt comfortable but it wasn't intolerable either. They're just tight and kind of hug your body and really connect you with the car in a way that's hard to describe. I don't do 3+ hour long drives in the GTS with the buckets so lengthy drives is not an issue for me. I just love them for everyday driving around town or sometimes a longer drive of maybe 2 hours which works just fine.
Very subjective. Some will reject them outright due to getting in and out of them. Others will reject them due to their body size. I'm 6'3" and 195 lbs. Perfect fit for me with the seats full aft although as I said in a previous thread on the subject, maybe just a tad too upright for my likes. There are solutions to this but I've found that simply sliding forward in the seat a little bit makes the difference I'm looking for or at least close enough. All said though, awesome seats that to me are addictive. Wouldn't own a 997 without them.
You're spot on about the incompatibility of the Torqued recliner brackets. A simple eyeballing of the folding bucket seats would have saved me some hassle of having to return them. I'm not sure I have the appetite to go with this solution by NSXavier (https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...-reclined.html) but it is killer!
Originally Posted by hexagone
This won't work. You have folding buckets - not LWBs. Save yourself the purchase - I looked into this. LWBs have a recline mechanism which the folding seats do not.
My header saga continues re: the Top Speed headers with 200-cell cats. First, DO NOT buy these headers. I bought them for $900 and they are effectively catless headers. The cats basically serve no purpose. With quality cats, you should never get CELs but I consistently got errors even after installing O2 spacers. Total BS and unacceptable. I live in an area that doesn't require emissions testing so it's kind of a moot point for me, but I wanted cats in case I sold the car in the future and could sell to CA buyers or anywhere that requires emissions testing. If/when I do sell, I will include the stock headers and the next buyer will have the option to keep it as-is or put the stock headers back on. But it does sound good, especially above 4,000 RPM.
After consulting with my local tech who used to be the lead tech at my local Porsche dealer and at Champion Motorsport in FL, we decided to add the GIAC tune to eliminate the CELs. It also has the added benefit of sharper throttle response and a deeper exhaust growl. It feels slightly quicker too, not that I needed that. Because of my tech's past relationship with GIAC, they worked through a couple iterations and I was able to get a custom tune specific to my car. It feels pretty dialed in now. I have a road trip to Sonoma and Palm Springs in a couple weeks and look forward to opening her up. Hopefully my fiancee will be able to tolerate 8 hours in the bucket seats! We've already taken a trip to Portland (3 hours each way) and she said they were comfy so indications are good. I'm a lucky dood. Here's a pic for clicks, taken at a friend's place. Carry on.
I had similar issues with Top Gear UK sourced 200 cell cat pipes for my 997.1 a few years ago. Sounded great, but the CELs would keep popping up Tried all manner of O2 sensor spacers, even the 'mini-cat' type, and nothing worked. Went back to stock and no codes.
Then went whole hog and bought FVD PSE specific headers and 200 cell u-bend cat pipes. Fantastically expensive, but was 40th birthday present to myself. High quality, made by M&M Exhaust in Germany. They make motorsports exhausts for GT race teams and the like. Very cool, were made to order - the part number sticker had my name on them! Same sort of experience when guys are buying parts from small, cottage industry aftermarket JDM tuning houses I guess. Anyway, haven't had a CEL with the FVD/M&M set up at all. You pays your money, you takes your chances though. The FVDs were a great way to turn money into noise...
Agreed, you get what you pay for with these aftermarket exhaust systems. If I lived in CA, I would have put the stock headers back on. But since I don't have emissions testing in my county, the software tune was a good solution since I still get better-than-stock sound and growl. No doubt the FVD solution is fantastic. They do quality stuff.
I'm working with a local shop to see if I can adapt a 997 Turbo front lip to my car. Not sure it will work because I want to retain the ability to reinstall the stock GTS lip in the future. I'm also considering options for new summer wheels and some other aesthetic "flair". I think I'm going Sport Classic wheels but with a twist. The car will really pop when it is done.
Originally Posted by Saaboteur
I had similar issues with Top Gear UK sourced 200 cell cat pipes for my 997.1 a few years ago. Sounded great, but the CELs would keep popping up Tried all manner of O2 sensor spacers, even the 'mini-cat' type, and nothing worked. Went back to stock and no codes.
Then went whole hog and bought FVD PSE specific headers and 200 cell u-bend cat pipes. Fantastically expensive, but was 40th birthday present to myself. High quality, made by M&M Exhaust in Germany. They make motorsports exhausts for GT race teams and the like. Very cool, were made to order - the part number sticker had my name on them! Same sort of experience when guys are buying parts from small, cottage industry aftermarket JDM tuning houses I guess. Anyway, haven't had a CEL with the FVD/M&M set up at all. You pays your money, you takes your chances though. The FVDs were a great way to turn money into noise...
01-11-2022, 01:20 PM
We've already taken a trip to Portland (3 hours each way) and she said they were comfy so indications are good. I'm a lucky dood. Here's a pic for clicks, taken at a friend's place. Carry on.
