911Mann

So how is the borescope inspection done from "underneath"? Remove oil pan, anything else?

911Mann

Interesting you're saying that. I'm in the market for a 997.2 and that thought has bounced around in my mind too. Seems that early 991's are selling in nearly the same price range as 997.2's with similar mileage. I realize that the cars are vastly different generations and some people prefer the 997.2 and some prefer the newer 991. But if you can get a newer, significantly refined 991 for about the same money, it's certainly worth considering. And as far as retaining their value, if the 997.2 retains its value, pretty good chance that would put support under 991 resale values. I can't imagine 991s selling for less than 997.2's in a few years, but of course it's possible.

911-997

Yes 997.2 MT is very close in price to 991.1. Many in this section of forum will say it is different car but for me 991.1 is better in everything regardless what others here say.

I was already pursuing 991.1 couple of months ago but then a 997.2 MT popped up with very good price (20K less than what 991.1 used to go at that time) so I snapped the 997.2 instead.

My next car will be definitely a 991.1 once this price madness ends

groovzilla

Show me a manual transmission 991 selling for the same money as a 997.2?
You can find 991 MT in $60's-high 60"s - 991's are in the $80-$90k's right now.

911Mann

Here's one, for example. There are others. (And this is a CPO, which gets a premium)

https://finder.porsche.com/us/en-US/...reowned-JE0RX0

groovzilla

Well I wasn't talking base model(Non S, C4 C4S) ---> That 991 base is still +$12-$15K more than a base 997.2 which can be found for $50-$60K
I'm referring to more desired 991S, C4 or C4S which is much more preferred than base model.--->Also cars with mid-range miles not extremely high.
But either way Base 997.2 is still much less cost than 991 Base
I looked for 991S a long time in Silver/black Manual trans with metal sunroof not the glass style. Nothing less than $83K

Heres a 2009 Base coupe Manual for $49K asking price:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7...-de0f17d5b9fc/

Wayne Smith

From underneath with the oil pan removed. I haven't done this. From what I've read, with the closed deck design, there is very little that can be seen.

groovzilla

Wayne - On the 4 Bore Scope Inspections I've had performed on 997.1's this year, all were done/recommended through spark plug holes and signs of Bore Scoring very evident on the 3 cars I passed on. One even had a vertical cylinder crack.
What is gained or why would the 997.2 engine need to have the BS Insp. done from underneath?
Thx

Wayne Smith

The closed deck design of the 9A1 DFI motor is more prone to cold seizure than bore score (although a defective injector can create a bore score problem). Cold seizure damage resides near the bottom of the cylinder. So if you're looking for problems you need to see the lower half of the cylinder wall that resides under the piston skirt. That can only be viewed from underneath with the piston at TDC.

That doesn't exclude a view from above via the plugs for bore scoring. It's just if you're trying to be thorough (and want to inspect for the more likely failure) the bottom view is essential.

911Mann

What exactly does "closed deck design" mean? (I'm a 997 Newbie)

groovzilla

Thx!

Wayne Smith

Welcome to the world of Porsche. There are many very knowledgeable sources here to learn from. As for your question ...

https://drivetribe.com/p/what-the-he...SHuAD__-qPwKgg

There are many other sources as well.

911Mann

Thanks, Wayne.

BTW, I'm not new to Porsche's, owned two of them, just new to Carrera's and the 997.

Wayne Smith

I realized that after I responded. So more correctly ... Welcome to the 997 World!!!

Prairiedawg

Until recently, before all of the market distortions because of... pick your reason, 991's and 997's had reached parity. I was in the market from mid 2018 to late 2019 and during that time, I had considered a couple of 991's because they were in the same price range as the 997's. There were 991 S cars with 30k miles in the low 60's and there were 997.2's with 20-30k miles in the low to mid 60's. That was parity and some 991's were selling for less than similar but slightly lower mileage 997.2's.

Now all bets are off and nothing makes any sense anymore. All that money printed has to go somewhere. Some of the pricing is due to automobile shortages, but how many Porsche buyers need a used Porsche? Not like the guy with 200,000 miles on his Chevy. That guy NEEDS a car, the Porsche buyer WANTS a Porsche and has a bunch of extra money to help push the market up for those unlike the masses that are pushing up the Toyotas out of need.

I think if Covid never happened, the price would be almost the same for a late 997.2 and a similar early 991. There was a distinct demand for the 997.2, I wanted one myself and picked a 2012 GTS over a similar mileage, spec'd 2013 Carrera S. Both cars were within $500 of each other.