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There is nothing that indicates the manual transmission is any less popular on the 991.2 than the 991.1 model, in viewing what CarGurus shows:
991.1 PDK = 507, manual = 76
991.2 PDK = 718, manual = 125
Additionally, there is nothing to indicate manual transmissions sell any faster or command any price premium. I selected models available after 30, 60, 90 and 120 days and found the ratio between manual and automatic left on the market was within a few percentage points at all intervals.
So just returned home from trip to Portland and test drove 2017 991 C4S at Grand Prix Motors Used Car showroom..
I've been working with owners sister and showed up about 12noon today. Was introduced to the owner who is very nice and had long talk.
He confirmed as well as his sister who was involved in conversation that the 997.1, 997.2 & 991 cars all get premium prices if they are Manual Transmission and much more sought after.
90% of the Used Porsche's in their showroom are TIP or PDK and they sit.
They also really wanted my 2007 997S on a trade in because it was manual Transmission - There eyes sort of light up when you mention MT. Just the way it is.
So the 2017 C4S I was interested in has the glass roof and doesn't have Sport Muffler.(PSE) These were real negatives for me. I needed to see the car in person and I just don't like the Glass roof and the way it pops up and back.
The design/lines of the solid metal/silver roof with sunroof that slides into headliner to me is a much better design. Also not having Sport Muffler will mean a Gundo Hack.
The agate Grey interior was a very pleasing color and I could live with it although black is my preferred interior color.
Was a beautiful day and took a nice 30 minutes test drive on freeway and around city. Few things you can't help notice are all the extra gadgets/*****/steering wheel adjustments and the slightly higher center console.
I didn't find the higher center console a problem and shifting was fine and comfortable. I did notice the clutch grabs a bit higher than my 997. But transmission felt very similar and same "throw" distance and feel.
IMO the power steering wasn't as noticeable as others had mentioned. This particular car doesn't have the optional power steering add on - Not sure what that is exactly but sales person mentioned there is an optional add on that feels more like power steering and takes you farther way from the earlier 997 steering/road feel. So perhaps because this car wasn't equipped with the optional power steering add-on, the steering didn't feel too much different than the 997.
This car was also factory height. It grabbed the road just like my old 997C4S and the drive really isn't a whole heck of a lot different. Slightly different front end feel from the power steering but not much and didn't detract from the ride.
I also didn't feel much more power from the engine compared to my 997S. In the curves and accelerating was not much different and hardly noticeable.
Overall I was really happy with the 991 drivability and wouldn't hesitate stepping up to a desired silver/black w/metal sunroof w/PSE.
Last edited by groovzilla; 07-11-2020 at 11:58 AM.
Sooooo Groove - why leave us hangin'? enough to go for it? I know what you mean about the roof, BUT, with it closed it does look nice against the light colors and the one I drove did not have it in (glass). Are you sure they make the metal one that retracts into the roof -why can't they just make that one in glass i wonder? And you really did not notice that 420 hp turbopower being that much diff than your NA 355 hp engine, not to mention torque map??
I switched from a 997 to a 991 a few years ago, and I’ve never looked back. The 991 is the best 911 that I’ve ever owned. I have no regrets.
Yeah i get that, but your missing the (my) point. This is not about 'the best, or latest or greatest" Of course the 992 will probably be better than the 991 you have now- I mean why do well sorted older 911's still have demand and value... something about them, and plus i think they have more character.
Intresting perspective. I would also factor in that Porsche understands that dealers, at least in the U.S., have a harder time moving manuals and they may sit on the showroom floor for longer periods resulting in an inventory backlog and fewer total sales. While you can order a manual if a dealer has allocations available, I wonder what the inventory of manuals at any given time is. My point is that there may be more people out there that might buy a manual but the inventory is short, options may be less desireable, and to get an allocation for a custom build may not be possible or really expensive. At the 911 price point, if you are buying new, you should get what you want. A well optioned good deal on a PDK might be more attractive than settling for a manual out of inventory that might not be exactly what you want or having limited bargaining power for an allocation.
Well, that's another angle to it. I still think there has to be a financially based reason for Porsche dropping the production of 911 manuals to around 20% since the PDK was introduced and that number seems to have held pretty steady or may even have decreased. One would think that if dealers kept getting orders for manuals that exceeded their allocations, Porsche would respond with an increase in production of manuals but that's not happening.
Porsche isn't exactly known for leaving chips on the table so if they saw more sales as a result of building more manuals, my bet would be on them building more manuals. They're still building them so it wouldn't add any expense to build more of them. So I just keep coming back to the same conclusion for what they build: Supply and demand. Would not be surprised at all if like Ferrari and Lamborghini they will at some point stop offering manuals altogether. I've posted the Lambo story below before so you may or may not have read it already but interesting how Lamborghini made their decision to drop manuals as an option....period. Wouldn't be far fetched to think that Ferrari made the same decision based on the same reason.
Why Lamborghini Trashed the Manual Transmission
When Ferrari made the move to drop its iconic gated stick shift the Italian automaker boasted that its transmission technology had become so impressive that shifting your own gears was, at best, antiquated and at worst, robbing the car of its performance.
With the launch of the new Huracán and retirement of its Gallardo model, rival Lamborghini has now also sold its last stick shift. Their reason: no one cares.
Badgered about the lack of a manual by journalists during a tech session on the new Huracán at the automaker’s headquarters in Sant’Agata Bolognese last week, chief engineer Maurizio Reggiani brought up the fact that just five percent of Gallardo orders were for a manual. Mid-sentence, he was interrupted by company CEO Stephan Winkelmann who commented that the 5 percent statistic was ancient.
“Close to zero percent Gallardos were ordered in manual,” he said.
In fact, orders for a manual transmission were so few and far between admits Winkelman that every time one came in they had to go back and re-check the order form, confirming with the dealership that a mistake hadn’t been made.
Exactly -supply and demand %,s for newly purchased cars would be proportionate; the preowned market probably is a little different. For example, out of ten people, say 2 are looking for a manual, then there are probably only 1 or 2 for sale somewhere and vice-versa . In my window shopping for preowned, manuals are more rare to come across. That is why I am in this 'dilemma'; I saw a local nice low mileage manual 991 that i may not see again down the road when i may be more inclined to make the switch, or preferably, add to the stable for awhile.
Why all this fuss about the market for manual vs PDK anyway? It is what it is and ten years from now we will see if older 911's with manuals are more in demand than what is out there or not. Personally, I have no desire for an automatic Porsche, maybe that will change at some point.
Yeah i get that, but your missing the (my) point. This is not about 'the best, or latest or greatest" Of course the 992 will probably be better than the 991 you have now- I mean why do well sorted older 911's still have demand and value... something about them, and plus i think they have more character.
No, I see your point. I also agree that each car has a different feeling and a different character. I’m sure a 992 is “better” than my 991 in most if not all objective measures, but I’m not interested in one. For me, the 991 is the perfect balance of technology and driver. It’s not over the top with tech, but it’s still modern. I also think that Porsche got the proportions just right with the 991, and I find it very attractive. Many people feel this way about the 997 too. I loved my 997, but the 991 is better for me. When I owned my 997, I regularly thought about trading it for a 991. When I bought my 991, that changed to thinking about keeping it forever.
Good luck with your search, and I’m sure you’ll find the one that calls to you, whichever generation/model that is.
No, I see your point. I also agree that each car has a different feeling and a different character. I’m sure a 992 is “better” than my 991 in most if not all objective measures, but I’m not interested in one. For me, the 991 is the perfect balance of technology and driver. It’s not over the top with tech, but it’s still modern. I also think that Porsche got the proportions just right with the 991, and I find it very attractive. Many people feel this way about the 997 too. I loved my 997, but the 991 is better for me. When I owned my 997, I regularly thought about trading it for a 991. When I bought my 991, that changed to thinking about keeping it forever.
Good luck with your search, and I’m sure you’ll find the one that calls to you, whichever generation/model that is.
Agreed. I think the 991.1s are very sexy and in top ranking looks and performance wise for me (i don't like the grilles on the .2s, nor 992s but performance I know they are at the top) But I love my 997 for what it is as well. You're probably right about no regrets, its just hard when you've owned the car for 15+ years, my first and only Porsche so far. My son has his eyes on it, but he has a was to go to earn it lol.
So just returned home from trip to Portland and test drove 2017 991 C4S at Grand Prix Motors Used Car showroom..
I've been working with owners sister and showed up about 12noon today. Was introduced to the owner who is very nice and had long talk.
He confirmed as well as his sister who was involved in conversation that the 997.1, 997.2 & 991 cars all get premium prices if they are Manual Transmission and much more sought after.
90% of the Used Porsche's in their showroom are TIP or PDK and they sit.
They also really wanted my 2007 997S on a trade in because it was manual Transmission - There eyes sort of light up when you mention MT. Just the way it is.
So the 2017 C4S I was interested in has the glass roof and doesn't have Sport Muffler.(PSE) These were real negatives for me. I needed to see the car in person and I just don't like the Glass roof and the way it pops up and back.
The design/lines of the solid metal/silver roof with sunroof that slides into headliner to me is a much better design. Also not having Sport Muffler will mean a Gundo Hack.
The agate Grey interior was a very pleasing color and I could live with it although black is my preferred interior color.
Was a beautiful day and took a nice 30 minutes test drive on freeway and around city. Few things you can't help notice are all the extra gadgets/*****/steering wheel adjustments and the slightly higher center console.
I didn't find the higher center console a problem and shifting was fine and comfortable. I did notice the clutch grabs a bit higher than my 997. But transmission felt very similar and same "throw" distance and feel.
IMO the power steering wasn't as noticeable as others had mentioned. This particular car doesn't have the optional power steering add on - Not sure what that is exactly but sales person mentioned there is an optional add on that feels more like power steering and takes you farther way from the earlier 997 steering/road feel. So perhaps because this car wasn't equipped with the optional power steering as on the steering didn't feel too much different than the 997.
This car was also factory height. It grabbed the road just like my old 997C4S and the drive really isn't a whole heck of a lot different. Slightly different front end feel from the power steering but not much and didn't detract from the ride.
I also didn't feel much more power from the engine compared to my 997S. In the curves and accelerating was not much different and hardly noticeable.
Overall I was really happy with the 991 drivability and wouldn't hesitate stepping up to a desired silver/black w/metal sunroof w/PSE.
Have you considered a 997.2? You could get all of the advantages you mentioned with the 991.1, but without the larger sized car and feel. You could pick up a very nice manual 997.2 C2S for around $60k or less.
07-10-2020, 12:29 PM
