TheTorch

^ what Groove said. It's so different now. Had to require my 16 year old to get his license -- he was in no hurry. A year later he's still not interested in learning stick. So far anyway.

Balr14

I taught my siblings, my kids and a grandson to drive manual. Only one son and me still drive it and I can take it or leave it... after driving manual for 61 years the thrill is gone. My family members tell me "Why should I do something the car can do better without my help?" Very hard to argue with.

caitov

I'm of the type that a manual is necessary if it's in sync with the technology of the car. I would never buy an air-cooled without a manual, but on a 991 or greater, I feel it's just holding the car back.
But that's why there's choices (for now). To each their own....

Sporty

FWIW If my 997 was a TIP/PDK I would definitely upgrade to the 991 in a PDK version. The manual in a 997 just makes it more of "sports'car To Me and fits its character IMHO, while the 991 is more refined and GT like which to ME is more consistent with an automatic. And yes traffic/city driving be damned and faster at the track, I know just my opinion -nothing else.

Man we went from manual to PDK market share to manual vs PDK in general and that wasn't even the point of this thread.

Balr14

I think it's more lamenting the decline of the manual transmission in general. It used to be your car wasn't really cool unless it had a manual transmission. Those days are long gone. Now you need the latest and greatest dual clutch auto, with more gears than you thought possible and at least 4 modes.

sandwedge

As I've also said, it seems to be a supply and demand issue for a small (around 20%) segment of the 997 market. Not for the entire 997 market. If manual was the preference for a majority of pre-owwned 997 buyers then the argument for a premium for a manual would make a lot of sense and would be reflected in the pricing of the different transmission cars. A quick 5 minute search on Auto Trader turned up these two cars as a good example of how this doesn't seem to be the case..

2011 C2S MANUAL with 65,423 miles for $48,679 https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

2011 C2S PDK with 68,000 miles for $59,500 https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

Both are 2011's, both are C2S with mileage the same for all practical purposes. Yes, the PDK car has the aero kit but that's hardly a strong argument for an $11,000 premium over a manual with 3,000 less miles on the clock. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? The manual getting the big premium?

AIrey1507

On the 991, the steel/metal sunroof also pops out and slides over the roof (same as the glass sunroof) rather than sliding in the headliner like the 997 does.

Ripking

That pricing is very bizarre. Putting aside that they're on opposite sides of the country (I don't think regionality actually matters much in 997 pricing) I think that one with factory aero is being priced so exorbitantly because of that option and the uniqueness of it. I stalked nationwide 997 pricing on autotrader for about 18 months prior to purchasing my car a year ago and there was very clear price gaps between manual and auto of between $3K-$5K for cars that were of similar mileage, options, and condition. The C2S manual appears well priced in my opinion and I think will have no issue going for around that price. The PDK on the other hand I would be surprised if they didn't have to reduce significantly before moving it.

groovzilla

Thx for the heads up

groovzilla

You can ASK all you want for a used car. Comparing asking prices means absolutely nothing.
And I agree, comparing the desire to own a Manual Transmission to Tip/PDK is like comparing taste in music. To each his own.
But MT 997/991 have higher market value, harder to find and you just can't argue the point. Anyone following the market closely will agree.

sandwedge

Yes I can argue that point as I already have. I don't care which one has a higher market value. Again, maybe the manuals command a higher price than PDK but and that's a big BUT since that premium only applies to about 20% of buyers. That's why I have a hard time understanding how one can make a blanket statement that manuals are more valuable than PDK's when such a small segment of buyers even have an interest in manuals and some 80% of buyers have moved on and want nothing to do with manuals anymore. It's been 11 years now since the PDK was introduced and every statistic I've seen since then showing roughly the same 80% to 20% ratio in favor of the PDK,

When was the last time anyone saw such dwindling demand for any product as a result of a newer version with new technology and improved performance lead to higher prices for the old version inferior in every way except "involvement"? Especially over such a lengthy period of time.

Ripking

mechanical watches?

Ironman88

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...oncise-history

paddlefoot64

IMHO, an example of a device that can be inferior in some aspects and superior in others. It has a “soul”.

Balr14

Use the CarGurus evaluator if you want to find out if manuals have more value than PDK. You can input parameters for model, year and options and swap transmissions to see if value changes. You may not agree with this method, but this (or something nearly identical) is the tool many car dealers use to determine value. Most people buy from a dealer.