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You don't like learning and understanding information?
And yes, wear additives get used and bind with other molecules and compounds.
But where does it go? If it binds to something that remains suspended in the out, it would show up in the spectroscopy results. If it precipitates out, then it ends up in the sludge at the bottom of pan instead of being in solution. Or does it bind to parts in the engine (seems unlikely)?
TBN is measured in terms of mg KOH equivalent needed to titrate the remaining base in the sample. I'd like to hear from a chemist what that means in terms of reactivity with engine metals.
I certainly see the value of UOA for a vehicle I intend to keep a long time. Just wondering how it works on a first principles basis and that playlist is not public.
But where does it go? If it binds to something that remains suspended in the out, it would show up in the spectroscopy results. If it precipitates out, then it ends up in the sludge at the bottom of pan instead of being in solution. Or does it bind to parts in the engine (seems unlikely)?
TBN is measured in terms of mg KOH equivalent needed to titrate the remaining base in the sample. I'd like to hear from a chemist what that means in terms of reactivity with engine metals.
I certainly see the value of UOA for a vehicle I intend to keep a long time. Just wondering how it works on a first principles basis and that playlist is not public.
But where does it go? If it binds to something that remains suspended in the out, it would show up in the spectroscopy results. If it precipitates out, then it ends up in the sludge at the bottom of pan instead of being in solution. Or does it bind to parts in the engine (seems unlikely)?
TBN is measured in terms of mg KOH equivalent needed to titrate the remaining base in the sample. I'd like to hear from a chemist what that means in terms of reactivity with engine metals.
I certainly see the value of UOA for a vehicle I intend to keep a long time. Just wondering how it works on a first principles basis and that playlist is not public.
I am not an oil scientist but I do have a degree in chemical engineering and have studied lubricants and additives in the past.
The functionality of additives is consumed as these additives do their job. For example, a complex molecule can have more than one function but the end group of that molecule will react with some other molecule that is present from the combustion process or corrosion. That reaction will result in the modification of the end group such that it is no longer functional. Another part of the molecule may still be doing its job for other functions ( if there are any). So, in some cases, the additive is not being consumed but its functionality is being consumed ( or spent). The DI ( dispersant/inhibitor) package functionality gets consumed as a result of temperature, pressure, the products of the chemical reaction in the combustion chamber ( water, sulfur compounds, acids, soot, etc.). In addition, some of eth additives are there to protect the oil from the metals in the engine ( they can react) as well as protect the engine from the oil ( acids, particulates, sludge and other contaminants carried by the oil. These functionalities get consumed as well. It is important to understand that tests only find find what they are designed to find. Using my earlier example, The original molecule discussed is still there but the tests are looking for the functionality of the end group which after reacting will show the molecule is no longer there. Actually the molecule is often still there but the end group has been modified and the test can not sense or find it. In other cases, molecules are simply reacted with other molecules and totally reformed such as the industrial process for making chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide ( Caustic) from salt water ( NaCl and H2O). All the atoms are still there but totally reacted and reformed into completely different compounds. So much for the inhibitors.
As for the dispersants, these are not so much designed to keep contaminants in solution but to keep solid particles in suspension so they do not accumulate in areas. The ability to do this has a limit and as more contaminants enter the fluid the functionality is reduced.
I realize my attempt at a short explanation has its limitations but my point is that tests find only what they are designed to find.
Can someone summarize the gist of it? Why do you need 4 hours to talk about UOA?
These kinds of comments always amaze me. Everybody wants a quick fix these days. That may explain why this generation has such a short attention span.
IMHO... learning about tribology and how to effectively analyze a UOA report to help mitigate engine failure is not something that can be learned in a few forum posts. People that have spent their lives studying and working in the lubrication and engine performance industry are people that you want to learn from. This study will help you become more informed about what to look for as well as how to better care for your Porsche.
Lake Speed, Jr. states it the best:
"Why should you invest in used oil analysis? The answer begins with one word – prevention. The science of Predictive Maintenance relies on used oil analysis to detect problems while they are still small. Catching an issue before it becomes a catastrophic problem saves time, money and materials. Because early detection is critical to optimizing the value of used oil analysis, understanding the methods and results of used oil analysis unlocks the true benefits of used oil analysis. This 4-hour class will walk you through the science, processes and implementation of used oil analysis."
Why do I do the tests? Entertainment. Honestly, that is all.
I have no idea what to do should the analysis show something out of whack. My ethics will not allow me to sell off the car when I know about a problem (at least without full disclosure). I can't imagine me replacing the engine or tearing it down.... at least right away. I dunno.... maybe I am just setting myself for torment.... or is that a form of entertainment?
First off, you should stop going 10,000 miles between oil changes - go down to a 5,000 mile interval. Your iron wear is high because your viscosity is too low as is your Phosphorous. You also have too much fuel dilution. If you're warming up the car stationary in your driveway in the morning, you should stop doing that. If you're not doing that, you may have a fuel injector(s) that should be replaced.
First odd, you should stop going 10,000 miles between oil changes - go down to a 5,000 mile interval. Your iron wear is high because your viscosity is too low as is your Phosphorous. You also have too much fuel dilution. If you're warming up the car stationary in your driveway in the morning, you should stop doing that. If you're not doing that, you may have a fuel injector(s) that should be replaced.
Does the Canadian driver mean 10,000 kilometers on the Mobil 1 sample, perhaps? The fuel contamination does appear high.
Does the Canadian driver mean 10,000 kilometers on the Mobil 1 sample, perhaps? The fuel contamination does appear high.
Maybe that 10k is 10,000 kilometers or 6,200 miles like you say. If so, it just reinforces why Mobil 1 5W/40 isn't a great choice for these motors as the numbers shouldn't be that bad at 6,000 miles. Also, the 5W/40 isn't the 0W/40 European Formula that produces better UOA reports. I'm wondering if it's the Turbo Diesel oil that has higher Zinc & Phosphorous when new - problem with that is it doesn't have good high rpm shear resistance which is what you see in the viscosity number.
Nothing really interesting here other than the addition of Ceratec;
Good wear metal results. Zinc and Phosp looks good. But, terrible viscosities for <2,400 miles. That oil is shearing down just like the crappy Mobil 0W40 does. That oil would NEVER last 10K miles, let alone 5K.
Thanks for analysis Petza and yes chatchetf15 is correct mileage is in kilometers.
10k km oil interval / 6,200 miles is my interval. Trips are 20-30 miles a day with a lot of stop and go. I am not warming up the car - usually let it idle for 15 secs at most. Car is on a second motor, first motor was replaced in 2015 by Porsche due bore scoring, all services and oil changes done at Downtown Porsche Toronto, with bulk Mobil 1 5W40.
The current oil change I went with is Euro Pennzoil 5W40 which I will use from now on, oil change will go down to 3.5-4k miles and will try to run some proper injector cleaner and possibly do a injector cleaning in the spring.
Thanks for analysis Petza and yes chatchetf15 is correct mileage is in kilometers.
10k km oil interval / 6,200 miles is my interval. Trips are 20-30 miles a day with a lot of stop and go. I am not warming up the car - usually let it idle for 15 secs at most. Car is on a second motor, first motor was replaced in 2015 by Porsche due bore scoring, all services and oil changes done at Downtown Porsche Toronto, with bulk Mobil 1 5W40.
The current oil change I went with is Euro Pennzoil 5W40 which I will use from now on, oil change will go down to 3.5-4k miles and will try to run some proper injector cleaner and possibly do a injector cleaning in the spring.
Post the Pennzoil report here when you have one. Haven't seen a UOA on that oil yet, so interested to.
Where did you get the analysis done? I'm in Southern Ontario too, and I'm still looking for the best/most convenient place to use. I have tried a few, but have not got a report that looks like yours. I have pretty similar numbers on the reports from my year round daily driven 2009 997.2 C2, including more fuel dilution than I would like, which I think is also what is bring the viscosity down. I am changing at 5,000kms now and using LubriMoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 and my fuel dilution is in the low 2%'s after 5,000kms.
Yes, for sure - looking forward to Pennzoil test , but it maybe few months.
Originally Posted by Eric Buckley
Where did you get the analysis done? I'm in Southern Ontario too, and I'm still looking for the best/most convenient place to use. I have tried a few, but have not got a report that looks like yours. I have pretty similar numbers on the reports from my year round daily driven 2009 997.2 C2, including more fuel dilution than I would like, which I think is also what is bring the viscosity down. I am changing at 5,000kms now and using LubriMoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 and my fuel dilution is in the low 2%'s after 5,000kms.
10-04-2020, 02:47 AM
