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Sorry to resurrect an old thread - It seems that you have the 997 GT2 seats from Gert - What seats came originally in your 997.2? Did you have heat? I am going to attempt retrofitting 997 GT2 buckets into our 997.1 but we are curious on lights and air bag compatibility. Currently have Recaro Pole Position ABEs installed and wanted to go for a more OE option. AFAIK, 991 GT2 RoW seats will definitely throw the airbag light. My car did not have heated seats from factory, only Sport Seats w/ alcantara centers (non-heated).
Yup, these are RoW GT2 seats from Gert. You can turn the AWB sensor off with a PIWIS. The airbags will still function, but you won’t get the airbag warning light. I had heated 14 ways originally, and retrofitted new heating elements meant for a 997 sport seat into the cushions of the GT2 seat. I had to trim the heating elements and source/change some of the OEM connectors to make it all work, but it does and looks OEM. It was a pain in the *** and if I did it over again, I would just get heating elements from Amazon or eBay that are the correct size/shape.
Just wanted to update this thread and add some comments about adding seat heating to the GT2 buckets. If you have heated seats from the factory you can either purchase the separate heating elements listed above and install them in your cushions OR look for a used set of 991 cushions on ebay etc that already come with the heaters pre-installed. I went the latter route, made my own wiring harness to connect to the cushions and works like a charm. 2 stage heating just as the car had before with my factory sport seats.
I purchased 991 version of GT2 seats from Carnewal to install in my 2010 GT3 with Adaptive Sports seats, based on this thread but there are a few things that I wish I had known before doing so. I chose to go with the 991 version of the seats as I appreciate the heated seat function when our chapter does HPDE in lat March or October, as it does get a bit cold in the mornings in WV (Summit Point). I ordered Schroth 6-point harness to go with the seats from Gert. Apparently, there are some differences between these 991 version GT2 seats and the 997 version that came as optional equipment in the US.
991 seats were not Federalized and the passenger side does NOT have Airbag Weight Sensor (AWS), which will trigger the airbag light. There are numerous posts indicating that AWS can be coded out but the shop I am working with (TPC in Maryland, and Tom has a 997GT3 and knows it very well) says some cars take the coding and some don't, like his car. My car also would not take AWS disable setting and he is trying various module combinations to keep the airbag light from coming on but so far not successful, and his car did not either until he turned off airbags altogether. Since Porsche uses a fairly complex AWS, rather than a simple mat-type sensor like BMW, it isn't easy to reverse engineer it. Since Virginia has an annual safety inspection that I will not pass with the airbag light on, I may have to resort to a piece of black tape if TPC cannot code out the AWS. I use the car on the street and track, so I would like to keep the functionality.
There seem to be some dimensional differences between the 2 versions of the seats, as BK sub bar would not fit in the space under the seat, and these bars were fitted to many owners with 997 version of the seats. We were going to drill holes on the floor and mount eyelet bolts for sub belts but Schroth harness designed specifically for this application was not long enough when bolts were placed in the location TPC thought would be the best. It may have been helpful to see where the RoW version mounts their bolts but in the end, TPC modified 991 RS sub bar to fit in my car.
Hopefully, this will be helpful for those considering the 991 version of the GT2 seats for the driver and the passenger side. As the OP posted, it would NOT be an issue if just installing the driver side seat.
Sorry to resurrect (again), but I'm just now doing this upgrade and install on my 997.2 GT3, and I'm encountering the same issue that @jbse39 had with the BK sub bars.
@jbse39 Were you able to get the BK sub bar to install on the driver's side? I had to significantly relocate the electronics, but it ultimately worked. However, the passenger side is a no-go. It does not allow the seat lever to engage fully when installed.
My best guess is that the BK stuff was designed for the actual 997 RoW buckets before discontinued, although the BK techs insist these should work. I think they aren't super familiar with the intricacies of these applications, though (not a slight against them; they're just not full-time PCar guys).
When you say TPC modified its bar for you, what did that entail? @Tom@TPC Racing - Do you have a solution for this now?
Reproducing my email to BK below for more detail / if helpful to anyone.
TLDR - “RoW" is a Porsche-nerd term for cars and parts only sold / available outside of North America. EU / UK / Asia, etc. got a lot of awesome motorsports parts and cars that were never offered here due to DOT regs (RS cars weren’t a thing in America until the 997). So people use “RoW” to refer cars and parts originally only available to the “Rest of (the) World."
997 GT2/3 buckets were discontinued in Summer ’21. After that, folks wanting to install carbon buckets in a 997 (or 987, 981, etc.) either had to find a used set of 997 GT2/3 seats, or order 991 GT2 RoW buckets: http://www.carnewal.com/products/991...-:-991-version
While the 997 and 991 GT2 RoW seats look identical, they’re evidently not. That first RL post above explains in more detail, but 991 seats do not have a passenger occupancy sensor. 991 electronics are also positioned in different places than 997. 991 seats also have heat, while 997 didn’t. Lastly, there must also be a difference in the under-seat hardware dimensions between 997 and 991, because:
(i) the BK 9032 could not be installed without moving the control module / black box entirely to the “back” half of the driver’s seat, and
(ii) the BK 9034 does not allow the seat adjuster to engage enough for the seat to move on the sliders (Interestingly, the adjuster on the driver’s side 9032 clears just fine - which leads me to believe the 9032 might also work on passenger seat).
I think these minor differences also must be the reason why the BK instructions for 9034 appear “backwards” for these seats. The passenger seat doesn’t have a black box to reposition, so the tab supplied isn’t needed on the passenger install, and the pictures in the instructions don’t translate for the 991 seats. Conversely, the driver’s side does have the black box, but it’s not shown in the 9032 instructions.
Here is a pic showing the driver's side with bar installed and electronics relocated, as well as a couple showing adjuster clearance issue on the 9034 / passenger seat:
Sorry to resurrect (again), but I'm just now doing this upgrade and install on my 997.2 GT3, and I'm encountering the same issue that @jbse39 had with the BK sub bars.
@jbse39 Were you able to get the BK sub bar to install on the driver's side? I had to significantly relocate the electronics, but it ultimately worked. However, the passenger side is a no-go. It does not allow the seat lever to engage fully when installed.
My best guess is that the BK stuff was designed for the actual 997 RoW buckets before discontinued, although the BK techs insist these should work. I think they aren't super familiar with the intricacies of these applications, though (not a slight against them; they're just not full-time PCar guys).
When you say TPC modified its bar for you, what did that entail? @Tom@TPC Racing - Do you have a solution for this now?
No, the BK sub bars would not fit on the RoW GT2 seats. Tom@TPC told me that he had to modify (I imagine some cutting and welding involved) the 991 GT3 RS sub bars that he had on hand to fit. Below is a picture of the 991 GT3 RS sub bars and he said he welded different end plates to fit. I unfortunately do not have a picture of the finished product.
No, the BK sub bars would not fit on the RoW GT2 seats. Tom@TPC told me that he had to modify (I imagine some cutting and welding involved) the 991 GT3 RS sub bars that he had on hand to fit. Below is a picture of the 991 GT3 RS sub bars and he said he welded different end plates to fit. I unfortunately do not have a picture of the finished product.
Thanks! Interesting. I've spoken to Cantrell now as well, and they haven't encountered the issue either.
Seems like an opportunity for someone to make something for this application . . .
Just a thought regarding the 997 version with the passenger occupancy sensor... The four sensors themselves (one at each seat corner) mount between the seat rails and the seat side brackets and occupy (i'm guessing here) .75-1" of space. That could perhaps be the difference needed to fit and properly use the BK harness bars at least on the passenger seat as the driver's seat doesn't contain those sensors anyhow.
Just a thought regarding the 997 version with the passenger occupancy sensor... The four sensors themselves (one at each seat corner) mount between the seat rails and the seat side brackets and occupy (i'm guessing here) .75-1" of space. That could perhaps be the difference needed to fit and properly use the BK harness bars at least on the passenger seat as the driver's seat doesn't contain those sensors anyhow.
Yup. I bet that's exactly it. It needs almost an inch more clearance to work. I played with washers and a longer bolt, but didn't find a bolt quite long enough to do the trick . . .
Just a thought regarding the 997 version with the passenger occupancy sensor... The four sensors themselves (one at each seat corner) mount between the seat rails and the seat side brackets and occupy (i'm guessing here) .75-1" of space. That could perhaps be the difference needed to fit and properly use the BK harness bars at least on the passenger seat as the driver's seat doesn't contain those sensors anyhow.
That was my suspicion as well and at one point I looked into buying used 997 airbag weight sensors and retrofit them but never got around to it.
I don't think it matters in this instance but the seat rail themselves must be slightly different between ROW and US seats as the occupancy sensors themselves mount directly to the seat rails and have the bolt for the side rails to attach to mounted to the top of the occupancy sensors. It sounds like the ROW seat rails must have a bolt that attaches the side rails to the seat rails directly. Without seeing the ROW rails myself this is how I imagine they must work. Guessing some sort of bolt/spacer combo should work?
Proper 997 gen seats trade at a price premium to ROW seats likely for all these reasons. No need for airbag trickery and simple plug and play. As mentioned above heating elements are nice on ROW but relatively easily added to 997 gen seats.
That was my suspicion as well and at one point I looked into buying used 997 airbag weight sensors and retrofit them but never got around to it.
I've seen them used on ebay but almost 100% sure they aren't available as a new part. I recall inquiring one time and they aren't sold separately from the seats themselves.
I don't think it matters in this instance but the seat rail themselves must be slightly different between ROW and US seats as the occupancy sensors themselves mount directly to the seat rails and have the bolt for the side rails to attach to mounted to the top of the occupancy sensors. It sounds like the ROW seat rails must have a bolt that attaches the side rails to the seat rails directly. Without seeing the ROW rails myself this is how I imagine they must work. Guessing some sort of bolt/spacer combo should work?
Proper 997 gen seats trade at a price premium to ROW seats likely for all these reasons. No need for airbag trickery and simple plug and play. As mentioned above heating elements are nice on ROW but relatively easily added to 997 gen seats.
All valid points and when I purchased the seats, they were a decent amount less than the 997 versions, which is why I went for them....thinking they were more or less identical. Had I known, I would not have purchased the 991 versions given that I spent more to adapt them to the car which went beyond the price of the 997 versions I could have purchased. Given that the 997 versions do not seem to be available new, I guess the choice is rather limited now.
I don't think it matters in this instance but the seat rail themselves must be slightly different between ROW and US seats as the occupancy sensors themselves mount directly to the seat rails and have the bolt for the side rails to attach to mounted to the top of the occupancy sensors. It sounds like the ROW seat rails must have a bolt that attaches the side rails to the seat rails directly. Without seeing the ROW rails myself this is how I imagine they must work. Guessing some sort of bolt/spacer combo should work?
Proper 997 gen seats trade at a price premium to ROW seats likely for all these reasons. No need for airbag trickery and simple plug and play. As mentioned above heating elements are nice on ROW but relatively easily added to 997 gen seats.
This is correct. The side rails are affixed to the seat rails with 2 M8 X 1.25 bolts per corner. Pics shown.
So, a sufficiently long bolt and spacer combo should work. All I had on hand was the aluminum one shown next to the original below. It needs to be another 1/4" long to thread sufficiently. Going to hunt that down and try again.
I would also have gone with 997 versions, but it's not an option now. RoW 991s are the only choice. More reason for one of the main players to come up with a true bolt on solution . . .
07-09-2022, 11:24 AM
