about Centerlock kit on 997.1 C2S
03-05-2019, 03:04 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Centerlocks are the ideal case study for "if it ain't broke, leave it alone!"
I'm sure you can find a number of folks that would swap with you to remove centerlocks.
I'm sure you can find a number of folks that would swap with you to remove centerlocks.
03-07-2019, 03:21 AM
#3
Center Locks: reality
While center locks may look cool, might be a little lighter(doubt it), might in theory be faster to take on/off(lol) if you were on a racetrack with a pitstop crew trained in the process of proper removal and swap; the fact of the matter is, sigh; practically speaking, the majority of 911 owners would be far better off without'em. I realize that was a run on sentence, but trust me; you're better off without center locks.
03-07-2019, 06:18 AM
#4
Nordschleife Master
While center locks may look cool, might be a little lighter(doubt it), might in theory be faster to take on/off(lol) if you were on a racetrack with a pitstop crew trained in the process of proper removal and swap; the fact of the matter is, sigh; practically speaking, the majority of 911 owners would be far better off without'em. I realize that was a run on sentence, but trust me; you're better off without center locks.
I have a total of just over 85,000 miles on CL wheels now and have not had one single event that made me wish I had 5 lugs instead so respectfully, I think both of you are making mountains out of mole hills. But don't take my word for it. Ask others with CL wheels. Don't recall a single thread of anyone bitching about what a PIA they are.
03-07-2019, 08:27 AM
#5
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...te-option.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-s-avatar.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...n-a-video.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-comments.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...onversion.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...nd-safety.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...cl-wheels.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...el-change.html
03-07-2019, 08:59 AM
#6
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I have to disagree. On my second 997 now with CL and wouldn't know the difference in terms of dealing with them compared to 5 lugs unless I look at them and they do look good. The car doesn't have a spare to begin with so with a flat on the road, what's the difference? If you carry a spare and a jack somewhere, then on that rare occasion where all that would be needed, yes, you would have a small advantage. But not necessarily. The CL cars come with the sprocket to remove the wheels so you just have to buy a breaker/torque bar and the correct grease and it's no different than a 5 lug (as long as you're driving around with a jack tucked away somewhere).
I have a total of just over 85,000 miles on CL wheels now and have not had one single event that made me wish I had 5 lugs instead so respectfully, I think both of you are making mountains out of mole hills. But don't take my word for it. Ask others with CL wheels. Don't recall a single thread of anyone bitching about what a PIA they are.
I have a total of just over 85,000 miles on CL wheels now and have not had one single event that made me wish I had 5 lugs instead so respectfully, I think both of you are making mountains out of mole hills. But don't take my word for it. Ask others with CL wheels. Don't recall a single thread of anyone bitching about what a PIA they are.
I change my wheels and tires for winter and summer seasons, and I find the centerlocks easier to change than five-lug wheels. That said, the main reason that I prefer the centerlocks is the look.
03-07-2019, 09:12 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
I have to disagree. On my second 997 now with CL and wouldn't know the difference in terms of dealing with them compared to 5 lugs unless I look at them and they do look good. The car doesn't have a spare to begin with so with a flat on the road, what's the difference? If you carry a spare and a jack somewhere, then on that rare occasion where all that would be needed, yes, you would have a small advantage. But not necessarily. The CL cars come with the sprocket to remove the wheels so you just have to buy a breaker/torque bar and the correct grease and it's no different than a 5 lug (as long as you're driving around with a jack tucked away somewhere).
I have a total of just over 85,000 miles on CL wheels now and have not had one single event that made me wish I had 5 lugs instead so respectfully, I think both of you are making mountains out of mole hills. But don't take my word for it. Ask others with CL wheels. Don't recall a single thread of anyone bitching about what a PIA they are.
I have a total of just over 85,000 miles on CL wheels now and have not had one single event that made me wish I had 5 lugs instead so respectfully, I think both of you are making mountains out of mole hills. But don't take my word for it. Ask others with CL wheels. Don't recall a single thread of anyone bitching about what a PIA they are.
+1
Had my car 3 years and haven't once had a thought of wishing for 5 lugs. I'm glad the car has centerlocks and I'd buy it again with centerlocks. I think the issue is similar to PDK. Most of the whinging about it is by folks who do not own a car with it.
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03-07-2019, 04:12 PM
#8
Realities of center locks
I thought I'd just spell out some of the baggage that comes with center locks to help inform those who may not know.
Regardless of who does the work, the following things are required:
1.) A large breaker bar and torque wrench capable of producing an accurate 444 ftlb (costing at least $380 new).
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=PREC4D600F36H&source=froogle&kw=PREC4D600F36H&gcl id=EAIaIQobChMIyrPtluDw4AIVUbjACh3vcguBEAQYASABEgLOZvD_BwE.)
2.) The special socket, that comes with the car is also required. If you are missing this piece, you can purchase it from Ebay for around $120.
3.) You need another person to apply assisted brakes (while car is running) to break the nut while car on ground, and when torquing to spec (444ftlb) while in air. An alternative I use when no one else around is a reversable clamp to depress brake (while car is running) against a thick towel covering the driver seat. That costs only $25 if you don't have one already.
https://m.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-24-in-Medium-Duty-One-Handed-Bar-Clamp/1000235517
4.) Before putting back wheel, you need to lubricate with Optimoly Paste: around $30
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/00004330508.htm?pn=000-043-305-08-OEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2az2ueTw4AIVA5-fCh0FJgurEAQYAiABEgKSF_D_BwE
5.) There is a Three step torque procedure. After lubricating the necessary area with optimoly paste. you must first, torque to 444ftlb (while in air with assisted brakes engaged). Then, loosen a quarter turn, followed by retorquing to 444ftlb.
5.) Not done yet! After putting back wheel and torquing it to spec, you have to make sure the locking mechanism is fully engaged (out and flush with outside rim of nut) otherwise your wheel will Not be locked! Now pat yourself on the back, and congratulate yourself on a considerably involving accomplishment until you stop and think..wow, all that just to take off and put on a wheel?
If you're not handy, and or can't be bothered with that type of hassle (I wouldn't blame you), know that most indys are not knowledgeable of the above required specific steps. Even if they were, they may not have a torque wrench capable of accurately delivering 444ftlb and they certainly would not have the special center lock nut. As for Porsch service shops: many Will charge up to $70 just to torque your wheels to spec!
There are other issues. Certain brake components are different(more expensive rotors and their components if needing replacements) with center locks. Also, adding spacers is not an easy option with center locks. (Not that I recommend spacers.)
So, yeah..the center locks Look cool and all, but many folks would think twice (if they knew the above)? Some people like the way center locks look so much, they feel it is worth it. I'm not knocking them for that.
Heck, Porsche says you get better performance with center locks due to less rotational inertial mass. I am not saying they're lying. To many, this added performance is justification to have them.
Regardless of who does the work, the following things are required:
1.) A large breaker bar and torque wrench capable of producing an accurate 444 ftlb (costing at least $380 new).
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=PREC4D600F36H&source=froogle&kw=PREC4D600F36H&gcl id=EAIaIQobChMIyrPtluDw4AIVUbjACh3vcguBEAQYASABEgLOZvD_BwE.)
2.) The special socket, that comes with the car is also required. If you are missing this piece, you can purchase it from Ebay for around $120.
3.) You need another person to apply assisted brakes (while car is running) to break the nut while car on ground, and when torquing to spec (444ftlb) while in air. An alternative I use when no one else around is a reversable clamp to depress brake (while car is running) against a thick towel covering the driver seat. That costs only $25 if you don't have one already.
https://m.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-24-in-Medium-Duty-One-Handed-Bar-Clamp/1000235517
4.) Before putting back wheel, you need to lubricate with Optimoly Paste: around $30
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/00004330508.htm?pn=000-043-305-08-OEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2az2ueTw4AIVA5-fCh0FJgurEAQYAiABEgKSF_D_BwE
5.) There is a Three step torque procedure. After lubricating the necessary area with optimoly paste. you must first, torque to 444ftlb (while in air with assisted brakes engaged). Then, loosen a quarter turn, followed by retorquing to 444ftlb.
5.) Not done yet! After putting back wheel and torquing it to spec, you have to make sure the locking mechanism is fully engaged (out and flush with outside rim of nut) otherwise your wheel will Not be locked! Now pat yourself on the back, and congratulate yourself on a considerably involving accomplishment until you stop and think..wow, all that just to take off and put on a wheel?
If you're not handy, and or can't be bothered with that type of hassle (I wouldn't blame you), know that most indys are not knowledgeable of the above required specific steps. Even if they were, they may not have a torque wrench capable of accurately delivering 444ftlb and they certainly would not have the special center lock nut. As for Porsch service shops: many Will charge up to $70 just to torque your wheels to spec!
There are other issues. Certain brake components are different(more expensive rotors and their components if needing replacements) with center locks. Also, adding spacers is not an easy option with center locks. (Not that I recommend spacers.)
So, yeah..the center locks Look cool and all, but many folks would think twice (if they knew the above)? Some people like the way center locks look so much, they feel it is worth it. I'm not knocking them for that.
Heck, Porsche says you get better performance with center locks due to less rotational inertial mass. I am not saying they're lying. To many, this added performance is justification to have them.
03-07-2019, 04:20 PM
#9
I thought I'd just spell out some of the baggage that comes with center locks to help inform those who may not know.
Regardless of who does the work, the following things are required:
1.) A large breaker bar and torque wrench capable of producing an accurate 444 ftlb are required (costing at least $380 new).
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=PREC4D600F36H&source=froogle&kw=PREC4D600F36H&gcl id=EAIaIQobChMIyrPtluDw4AIVUbjACh3vcguBEAQYASABEgLOZvD_BwE.)
2.) The special socket, that comes with the car is also required. If you are missing this piece you can purchase this from Ebay for around $120.
3.) You need another person to apply assisted brakes (while car is running) to break the nut while car on ground, and when torquing to spec (444ftlb) while in air. An alternative I use when no one else around is a reversable clamp to depress brake (while car is running) against a thick towel covering the driver seat. That costs only $25 if you don't have one already.
https://m.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-24-in-Medium-Duty-One-Handed-Bar-Clamp/1000235517
4.) Before putting back wheel, you need to lubricate with Optimoly Paste: around $30
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/00004330508.htm?pn=000-043-305-08-OEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2az2ueTw4AIVA5-fCh0FJgurEAQYAiABEgKSF_D_BwE
5.) There is a Three step torque procedure. After lubricating the necessary area with optimoly paste. you must first, torque to 444ftlb (while in air with assisted brakes engaged). Then, loosen a quarter turn, followed by retorquing to 444ftlb.
5.) Not done yet! After putting back wheel and torquing it to spec, you have to make sure the locking mechanism is fully engaged (out and flush with outside rim of nut) otherwise your wheel will Not be locked! Now pat yourself on the back, and congratulate yourself on a considerably involving accomplishment until you stop and think..wow, all that just to take off and put on a wheel?
If you're not handy, and or can't be bothered with that type of hassle (I wouldn't blame you), know that most indys are not knowledgeable of the above required specific steps. Even if they were, they may not have a torque wrench capable of accurately delivering 440ftlb and they certainly not have the special center lock nut. As for Porsch service shops: many Will charge up to $70 just to torque your wheels to spec!
There are other issues. Certain brake components are different(more expensive rotors and their components if needing replacements) with center locks. Also, adding spacers is not an easy option with center locks. (Not that I recommend spacers.)
So, yeah..the center locks Look cool and all, but many folks would think twice (if they knew the above)? Some people like the way center locks look so much, they feel it is worth it. I'm not knocking them for that.
Heck, Porsche says you get better performance with center locks due to less rotational inertial mass. I am not saying they're lying. To many, this added performance is justification to have them.
Regardless of who does the work, the following things are required:
1.) A large breaker bar and torque wrench capable of producing an accurate 444 ftlb are required (costing at least $380 new).
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=PREC4D600F36H&source=froogle&kw=PREC4D600F36H&gcl id=EAIaIQobChMIyrPtluDw4AIVUbjACh3vcguBEAQYASABEgLOZvD_BwE.)
2.) The special socket, that comes with the car is also required. If you are missing this piece you can purchase this from Ebay for around $120.
3.) You need another person to apply assisted brakes (while car is running) to break the nut while car on ground, and when torquing to spec (444ftlb) while in air. An alternative I use when no one else around is a reversable clamp to depress brake (while car is running) against a thick towel covering the driver seat. That costs only $25 if you don't have one already.
https://m.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-GRIP-24-in-Medium-Duty-One-Handed-Bar-Clamp/1000235517
4.) Before putting back wheel, you need to lubricate with Optimoly Paste: around $30
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/00004330508.htm?pn=000-043-305-08-OEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2az2ueTw4AIVA5-fCh0FJgurEAQYAiABEgKSF_D_BwE
5.) There is a Three step torque procedure. After lubricating the necessary area with optimoly paste. you must first, torque to 444ftlb (while in air with assisted brakes engaged). Then, loosen a quarter turn, followed by retorquing to 444ftlb.
5.) Not done yet! After putting back wheel and torquing it to spec, you have to make sure the locking mechanism is fully engaged (out and flush with outside rim of nut) otherwise your wheel will Not be locked! Now pat yourself on the back, and congratulate yourself on a considerably involving accomplishment until you stop and think..wow, all that just to take off and put on a wheel?
If you're not handy, and or can't be bothered with that type of hassle (I wouldn't blame you), know that most indys are not knowledgeable of the above required specific steps. Even if they were, they may not have a torque wrench capable of accurately delivering 440ftlb and they certainly not have the special center lock nut. As for Porsch service shops: many Will charge up to $70 just to torque your wheels to spec!
There are other issues. Certain brake components are different(more expensive rotors and their components if needing replacements) with center locks. Also, adding spacers is not an easy option with center locks. (Not that I recommend spacers.)
So, yeah..the center locks Look cool and all, but many folks would think twice (if they knew the above)? Some people like the way center locks look so much, they feel it is worth it. I'm not knocking them for that.
Heck, Porsche says you get better performance with center locks due to less rotational inertial mass. I am not saying they're lying. To many, this added performance is justification to have them.
03-08-2019, 02:53 PM
#10
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I thought I'd just spell out some of the baggage that comes with center locks to help inform those who may not know.
Regardless of who does the work, the following things are required:
1.) A large breaker bar and torque wrench capable of producing an accurate 444 ftlb (costing at least $380 new).
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=PREC4D600F36H&source=froogle&kw=PREC4D600F36H&gcl id=EAIaIQobChMIyrPtluDw4AIVUbjACh3vcguBEAQYASABEgLOZvD_BwE.)
2.) The special socket, that comes with the car is also required. If you are missing this piece, you can purchase it from Ebay for around $120.
3.) You need another person to apply assisted brakes (while car is running) to break the nut while car on ground, and when torquing to spec (444ftlb) while in air. An alternative I use when no one else around is a reversable clamp to depress brake (while car is running) against a thick towel covering the driver seat. That costs only $25 if you don't have one already.
https://m.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-G...amp/1000235517
4.) Before putting back wheel, you need to lubricate with Optimoly Paste: around $30
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/00004330508.htm?pn=000-043-305-08-OEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2az2ueTw4AIVA5-fCh0FJgurEAQYAiABEgKSF_D_BwE
5.) There is a Three step torque procedure. After lubricating the necessary area with optimoly paste. you must first, torque to 444ftlb (while in air with assisted brakes engaged). Then, loosen a quarter turn, followed by retorquing to 444ftlb.
5.) Not done yet! After putting back wheel and torquing it to spec, you have to make sure the locking mechanism is fully engaged (out and flush with outside rim of nut) otherwise your wheel will Not be locked! Now pat yourself on the back, and congratulate yourself on a considerably involving accomplishment until you stop and think..wow, all that just to take off and put on a wheel?
If you're not handy, and or can't be bothered with that type of hassle (I wouldn't blame you), know that most indys are not knowledgeable of the above required specific steps. Even if they were, they may not have a torque wrench capable of accurately delivering 444ftlb and they certainly would not have the special center lock nut. As for Porsch service shops: many Will charge up to $70 just to torque your wheels to spec!
There are other issues. Certain brake components are different(more expensive rotors and their components if needing replacements) with center locks. Also, adding spacers is not an easy option with center locks. (Not that I recommend spacers.)
So, yeah..the center locks Look cool and all, but many folks would think twice (if they knew the above)? Some people like the way center locks look so much, they feel it is worth it. I'm not knocking them for that.
Heck, Porsche says you get better performance with center locks due to less rotational inertial mass. I am not saying they're lying. To many, this added performance is justification to have them.
Regardless of who does the work, the following things are required:
1.) A large breaker bar and torque wrench capable of producing an accurate 444 ftlb (costing at least $380 new).
https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=PREC4D600F36H&source=froogle&kw=PREC4D600F36H&gcl id=EAIaIQobChMIyrPtluDw4AIVUbjACh3vcguBEAQYASABEgLOZvD_BwE.)
2.) The special socket, that comes with the car is also required. If you are missing this piece, you can purchase it from Ebay for around $120.
3.) You need another person to apply assisted brakes (while car is running) to break the nut while car on ground, and when torquing to spec (444ftlb) while in air. An alternative I use when no one else around is a reversable clamp to depress brake (while car is running) against a thick towel covering the driver seat. That costs only $25 if you don't have one already.
https://m.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-QUICK-G...amp/1000235517
4.) Before putting back wheel, you need to lubricate with Optimoly Paste: around $30
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/00004330508.htm?pn=000-043-305-08-OEM&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2az2ueTw4AIVA5-fCh0FJgurEAQYAiABEgKSF_D_BwE
5.) There is a Three step torque procedure. After lubricating the necessary area with optimoly paste. you must first, torque to 444ftlb (while in air with assisted brakes engaged). Then, loosen a quarter turn, followed by retorquing to 444ftlb.
5.) Not done yet! After putting back wheel and torquing it to spec, you have to make sure the locking mechanism is fully engaged (out and flush with outside rim of nut) otherwise your wheel will Not be locked! Now pat yourself on the back, and congratulate yourself on a considerably involving accomplishment until you stop and think..wow, all that just to take off and put on a wheel?
If you're not handy, and or can't be bothered with that type of hassle (I wouldn't blame you), know that most indys are not knowledgeable of the above required specific steps. Even if they were, they may not have a torque wrench capable of accurately delivering 444ftlb and they certainly would not have the special center lock nut. As for Porsch service shops: many Will charge up to $70 just to torque your wheels to spec!
There are other issues. Certain brake components are different(more expensive rotors and their components if needing replacements) with center locks. Also, adding spacers is not an easy option with center locks. (Not that I recommend spacers.)
So, yeah..the center locks Look cool and all, but many folks would think twice (if they knew the above)? Some people like the way center locks look so much, they feel it is worth it. I'm not knocking them for that.
Heck, Porsche says you get better performance with center locks due to less rotational inertial mass. I am not saying they're lying. To many, this added performance is justification to have them.
1. Yes, you do need to buy a big torque wrench and breaker bar. I bought mine on Amazon. It works very well.
2. The socket comes with the car, as you mentioned. The car has a closed storage compartment under the bonnet to keep it safe. Losing this isn't anything that I've ever heard before. If you lost the sockets that you need to change 5-lug wheels, you'd need to buy new ones too.
3. I use a brake pedal depressor that I bought on Amazon. It wasn't expensive and it works beautifully.
4. The $30 tube of Optimoly Paste will likely last as long as you own the car. Very little is required for each wheel. Application of the paste takes about 10 seconds per wheel. It's not hard or expensive.
5. You're correct. Re-torquing as you mentioned is recommended. It takes about 30 seconds per wheel.
5 again. The locking mechanism pops out as soon as you remove the socket. Confirmation that it's engaged takes about 2 seconds. It's not difficult.
I see your points and I agree that there's some added expense, but it's minimal in the overall scheme of things. I find it much easier to remove only one center lock nut per wheel as opposed to 5 lug bolts per wheel. Also, if you have PCCB, it's much easier to get the wheel onto the hub and centered with a single centering tool as opposed to multiple studs that are recommended for 5-lug installation. I feel that there's less risk of damaging a PCCB rotor when installing a center lock wheel.
I know that lots of people see center lock wheels as a marketing gimmick. I get that. But to argue that they're more difficult than traditional 5-lug wheels is not a strong case against them. It's easier once you have the tools and know what to do; it's just different than traditional wheels. I have no interest in going back to 5-lug wheels.
