Sporty

Ed - you just don't get it. If I had the time all the points made by all three of these pros can be reconciled - but the bottom line is there is no one answer or panacea and there are several variable contributing factors that are are all considered that can potentially cause scoring in some cars. Jake mentioned this in his video and all have offered advice to minimize scoring as best that it could be at this point. Bottom line, this is a design flaw that could affect certain cars based on the contributing variables. LSPI could be one of them due to bad injectors etc , but no one can say for sure that you should go replace all you injectors and we understand that. Quite frankly I would not have had the patience of Baz, Jake or Charles to comment any further - go back and listen to all of Jake's Videos - they were pretty straight forward and enlightening. My 2005 3.6 does not show any external symptoms or oil consumption at 34k miles but it may at some point. You know what you can do -scope your engine and have someone reputable like Jake rebuild it- there's your definitive answer to prevent scoring.

okie981

^This. Jake, Baz, and Charles are all doing research. It takes time. Fortunately, the 9A1 engine is providing relatively little failure data so far, hopefully forever. Theories are postulated, data is gathered, theories are tested, more data gathered, more theories, etc. It's early in the 9A1 engine's history given the few failures that have occurred. I can imagine a world where this thread or forum didn't exist. I'd rather not live in that world.

edomund

Thanks

The pics Baz asked for is the only question that was directed towards you, everything else was questions for Jake.

To the others chimming in with critisisms towards me instead of discussing the data I think you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from. You guys think I'm looking for some particular outcome, conclusion, or cure, but I'm not and have said as much. I don't care what the outcome is and I'm not looking for a conclusion, my goal was to try and have this thread be as accurate as possible. When you throw out theories on a thread or in a video be prepared to have someone ask questions. If Jake says you should use a specific oil because of lspi the logical question is why do you think there has been instances of lspi/did you see evidence of detonation in this engine? This is really straight forward even if engines as a whole are not. You also think I'm trying to prove Jake wrong and I'm not. I asked a question to understand his thinking. If he did find evidence of a failed injector or evidence of lspi then GREAT that is something for us to think about and discuss. If he did not then it's really a waste of time to think about it until they do find evidence of it. Seriously you don't waste time worrying about if you have a disease if you show no symptoms of that disease. I honestly think you just don't appreciate anyone questioning Jake even if it's a valid question. Look at all of these posts of you guys flaming me and then Charles says he will post the pics that I asked for in the beginning.

Petza914

I seem to recall that in one of the first videos where Jake had received Bronz's car and disassembled the motor that when he was discussing the unusual bearing wear that is when the conversation about lspi started, and that it was related to the bearing wear and not the scoring or seizure.

C4SDayton

Don't know if LSPI will prove to be an issue with these DI engines, but it has been shown to be an issue in other DI engines, even if only or mainly smaller engines and more in turbocharged engines. There is obviously enough issue for billion dollar companies to meet SN plus certification. In the world of owners spending up to $12 a quart on oil then changing oil after 3-5k miles, why not use one that addresses a potential issue currently not proven. Porsche isn't going to say it's an issue.
As for not worrying about having a disease showing no symptoms, that's a stupid analogy. That's like saying don't worry about the really high BP and cholesterol causing no symptoms, just wait for the MI or stroke and deal then.

Sporty

Not really flaming you; but you are being a nudge. What you are not getting is that the information provided in this thread is "as accurate as possible". These guys are posting to the best of their knowledge and I for one and others here appreciate all they have shared whether ultimately, definitively, conclusive or not. Realize that as much of this stuff is science and technical, part of getting to the right answer is art as well, even in what I do (S&P 500 scale corporate tax). Tell me what do you do for a living and I will ask you to definitively /conclusively respond to some very technical questions in your free time?

Sporty

correction: noodge

edomund

CS4Dayton, you're correct lspi is mostly an issue in high compression turbo charged engines. I haven't seen it be an issue in normally aspirated engines. In your analogy what's the "high BP" or "cholesterol"? It wasn't a injector failure, fuel wash, or signs of detonation. If you're going to say bearing wear go look at studies on lspi and see if they mention bearing wear. If you're going to say weak spray pattern that would throw a lean misfire code or something similar.

Sporty, would you say not posting the results of the injector tests was being accurate? The only reason we know the results is Bronz was kind enough to share them after I pressed the issue. So the fuel injector info that we had wasn't "to the best of their knowledge" because Jake knew the results of the injector test and didn't share them. Jake also knew what both sides of the piston and bore looked like and hadn't shared that. See a pattern here? Repeating to me that this is an art and not exact science has no relevance when someone asks a direct question that someone else has the answer to. You harassing me for trying to get answers to something that does have an answer is not helpful. Also I didn't ask for bigger picture conclusions from Jake. I asked specific questions that had answers.

Flat6 Innovations

And you did so in a demanding, entitled fashion.

edomund

Fair enough. Thank you for acknowledging that my questions did have answers.

If you didn't answer my questions because I was demanding why didn't you answer Baz?

Flat6 Innovations

Because I didn’t have to. Because I didn’t want to.

Would you like a few expletives to help drive the point home to you? If so, I’d be happy to oblige.

edomund

Hey that's your right. Now to everyone that harrassed me saying Jake was forthright and gave info to the best of his knowledge, there's your answer from the horses mouth. He didn't want to. Take what you read from Jake in this thread with a grain of salt.

Flat6 Innovations

And you forgot the part about "I didn't have to".

Mike Murphy

Dude, you’ve been on Rennlist for just a few months and have only started one thread looking for Recommendations for PPF & Ceramic Coating Installer Sacramento Area.

Rennlist is free and mostly anonymous. It can be a gold mine of great people and information. But it can be a worthless waste of time too.

Nobody owes anyone anything here.

Hilltopper

Bingo once again!!