Oil
06-23-2011, 06:17 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Just look at some UOAs on Delvac 1 in both gas and diesels. It has a great additive package, and works well to reduce wear. A UOA or VOA will give you better info than a MSDS.
At the end of the day, the diesel oils seem to reduce IMS noise SIGNIFICANTLY. Don't you think there's a chance that less metal on metal sound coming from your engine might mean less wear on those metal parts?
Again, I have listened to our resident expert, Kevin on this. As someone who has these motors and turbos apart all the time, I have to say, I'll believe him before I believe Mr Porsche approved oil, N spec tire dude.
Suit your self.
At the end of the day, the diesel oils seem to reduce IMS noise SIGNIFICANTLY. Don't you think there's a chance that less metal on metal sound coming from your engine might mean less wear on those metal parts?
Again, I have listened to our resident expert, Kevin on this. As someone who has these motors and turbos apart all the time, I have to say, I'll believe him before I believe Mr Porsche approved oil, N spec tire dude.
Suit your self.
06-23-2011, 06:39 PM
#32
Drifting
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They are the closest dealer to my house. I went to a PCA tech event at PM back in January, and part of the program was an oil change on a 997 Turbo. 20 minutes max, and most of that time was spent waiting for the oil to drain.
I'll be doing my own changes (or taking it to any indy).
I'll be doing my own changes (or taking it to any indy).
06-23-2011, 06:42 PM
#33
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Per page 136 in "our" 996TT owners manual it states...
3 oil viscosity ranges
0W40
5W40
5W50
Per the manual
Use ONLY engine oils labelled as API SH OR SJ and visosity grades SAE 0W40, 5W40 OR higher!! (the hgher is in reference to 5WXX ie 5W50 or 5W60 NOT 10W40 or 10W50) The exception to the rule is the BMW 10W60 oil.. This is a very good oil for EXTREME ambient temps such as Vegas, Death Valley, Middle East and so forth... BMW spec'd this oil in the early 2001's when they were having rod bearing issues.
Preferably you should use synthetic or semisynthic engine oils.
IF in doubt ask your authorized Porsche dealer for Porsche tested and approved all-season oils
On page 137 >>> USE ONLY engine oils with CLASSIFICATION API SH or SJ or ILSAC GF3 or ACEA
Kevin's note>> it does not say, don't use API rated diesel oil that is NOT on the "approved list"
I stand by my convictions that the Synthetic diesel oils have better additive packages for our engines today. Race oils and motorcycle oils that are API rated also need some consideration. The detergents in the race and motorcycle oil do not suit a vehicle that is not driven everyday.
Mobil Delvac is a very impressive oil.. The retail sister oil >> Mobil Turbo Diesel Truck 0W40 is a great engine oil, offering a better metal conditioning package.
3 oil viscosity ranges
0W40
5W40
5W50
Per the manual
Use ONLY engine oils labelled as API SH OR SJ and visosity grades SAE 0W40, 5W40 OR higher!! (the hgher is in reference to 5WXX ie 5W50 or 5W60 NOT 10W40 or 10W50) The exception to the rule is the BMW 10W60 oil.. This is a very good oil for EXTREME ambient temps such as Vegas, Death Valley, Middle East and so forth... BMW spec'd this oil in the early 2001's when they were having rod bearing issues.
Preferably you should use synthetic or semisynthic engine oils.
IF in doubt ask your authorized Porsche dealer for Porsche tested and approved all-season oils
On page 137 >>> USE ONLY engine oils with CLASSIFICATION API SH or SJ or ILSAC GF3 or ACEA
Kevin's note>> it does not say, don't use API rated diesel oil that is NOT on the "approved list"
I stand by my convictions that the Synthetic diesel oils have better additive packages for our engines today. Race oils and motorcycle oils that are API rated also need some consideration. The detergents in the race and motorcycle oil do not suit a vehicle that is not driven everyday.
Mobil Delvac is a very impressive oil.. The retail sister oil >> Mobil Turbo Diesel Truck 0W40 is a great engine oil, offering a better metal conditioning package.
06-23-2011, 08:08 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Cueto, then may i suggest you don't do business with that tech /tuner. Let me just say plenty of time and effort went into this, I just did not pick it off the shelf. I have discussed this with a very well known Porsche racing organization. But what I found out Porsche uses a general recommendation based on global outlook. Which means they provide a range of oils that will provide protection throughout where their cars are sold and not specific to particular specific locations. With that being said, this oil has the latest API desigantion of SN, has all the latest European designations ACEA, and based on the higher summer ambient temps here in the south do not approach the W (winter) temps these oils are designated at. It now exceeds the current latest API and ACEA specs. In fact one of the requirements for API SN is zinc and phosperous retention. The SN is now being required by some european and japanaese manufacturers. The ACEA A3/B3 A4/B4 specs are for perfornmance and long life. I am not going to debate this, but am pretty confident, using this oil in my summer months will be fine, and switching to 5w-50 in my fall and winter months will be more than adequate. Thanks for the comments!
06-23-2011, 08:30 PM
#35
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Kevinmacd, what you are failing to grasp is, the RACE shops that you are talking too run GT3 and RSR's.. These cars do NOT have the hydraulic low lift/high lift tappets. The CUP and RSR do not have the vario cam modules that we have. The drag caused by the higher 15W is substancial even in your higher climate. The drag placed on the intermediate shaft drive gear is something that one has to consider. I don't make the recommendation to run 15W oil for a street car. A night when the temperatures drop, the viscosity drops to a 15W. In race applications you will see teams using heat blankets to prewarm the oil sump tanks.
In the end it's your decision to "do it your way"
In the end it's your decision to "do it your way"
06-23-2011, 08:50 PM
#36
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Sigh.
Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40 oil contains (based on its MSDS) between 20 to 30 percent (by weight) of 1-decene, tetramer and trimer hydrogenated (IIRC, this is POA (or synthetic oil)).
There is a few other items with the concentrations of between 0.1 to 1 percent.
Then I see ZDDP listed in a concentration range of from 1 to 5 percent.
And down at the bottom of the composition and ingredients list I read where Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40 oil contains between 10 to 20 percent (by weight) mineral oil.
Anyone who uses Mobil 1 Delvac oil in his Turbo has no business owning a Turbo.
As for TDT we do not know the composition or ingredients for the most part because Mobil has decided these are 'trade secret'.
But with the MSDS of Delvac oil and the MSDS TDT oil side by side I can see similiarities in the composition and ingredients lists.
TDT oil contains the same 20 to 30 percent (by weight) of POA (1-decene, tetramer and trimer hydrogenated) and the next ingredient is ZDDP and its concentration is less than 2.5%.
The rest of the ingredients -- 01 through 08 -- have the name 'Trade Secret' but their concentration in percentage is given.
I skip down to Trade Secret 03 and see that same 10 to 20 percent number and I can't help but suspect that's mineral oil.
I know no one cares but Porche doesn't even approve either of the above oils for use in its Cayennes with diesel engines.
Yet apparently some believe these oils are suitable for Turbo engines.
Sigh.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40 oil contains (based on its MSDS) between 20 to 30 percent (by weight) of 1-decene, tetramer and trimer hydrogenated (IIRC, this is POA (or synthetic oil)).
There is a few other items with the concentrations of between 0.1 to 1 percent.
Then I see ZDDP listed in a concentration range of from 1 to 5 percent.
And down at the bottom of the composition and ingredients list I read where Mobil 1 Delvac 5w-40 oil contains between 10 to 20 percent (by weight) mineral oil.
Anyone who uses Mobil 1 Delvac oil in his Turbo has no business owning a Turbo.
As for TDT we do not know the composition or ingredients for the most part because Mobil has decided these are 'trade secret'.
But with the MSDS of Delvac oil and the MSDS TDT oil side by side I can see similiarities in the composition and ingredients lists.
TDT oil contains the same 20 to 30 percent (by weight) of POA (1-decene, tetramer and trimer hydrogenated) and the next ingredient is ZDDP and its concentration is less than 2.5%.
The rest of the ingredients -- 01 through 08 -- have the name 'Trade Secret' but their concentration in percentage is given.
I skip down to Trade Secret 03 and see that same 10 to 20 percent number and I can't help but suspect that's mineral oil.
I know no one cares but Porche doesn't even approve either of the above oils for use in its Cayennes with diesel engines.
Yet apparently some believe these oils are suitable for Turbo engines.
Sigh.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I suppose you're going to have to tell my car all that as my engine is now much quieter and consumption appears to be way down w the Delvac.
If you want to keep doing what authority is telling you in face of mounting evidence to the contrary, by all means go ahead. Afterall, its your IMS. Then again, anyone who cannot think for themselves probably shouldnt own a turbo.
06-23-2011, 08:53 PM
#37
I'm amazed that this subject is still so heavily debated...
It's been documented so well, so thoroughly and Kevin's advice is always so spot on...
The search function here CLEARLY doesn't work... and some CLEARLY don't get the jist of the whole "TDT" 5W40 thing, or the whole fact that there are differences between the Various GT1 motors.
Mike
It's been documented so well, so thoroughly and Kevin's advice is always so spot on...
The search function here CLEARLY doesn't work... and some CLEARLY don't get the jist of the whole "TDT" 5W40 thing, or the whole fact that there are differences between the Various GT1 motors.
Mike
06-23-2011, 09:03 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Mike, you should know that some will never get it. 
Kevin beat me to the punch and I'll glad he posted the info anyway about the 15W-50 oil. As he said, lack of Vario, the oil heating the teams will do, and the short rebuild intervals allow them to run those oils.
Some just don't do the research and instead, like religion, they think the stuff PAG publishes is the truth with a capital T.
It's amazing the dogma and anecdotal support they self-fulfill on.
Kevin beat me to the punch and I'll glad he posted the info anyway about the 15W-50 oil. As he said, lack of Vario, the oil heating the teams will do, and the short rebuild intervals allow them to run those oils.
Some just don't do the research and instead, like religion, they think the stuff PAG publishes is the truth with a capital T.
It's amazing the dogma and anecdotal support they self-fulfill on.
06-24-2011, 12:25 AM
#39
Drifting
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I took Kevin's advice on the 5-40 TD oil and my engine is absolutely purring
at idle. There was the typical light lifter clack at idle using the M1 0-40.
Purring can't be a bad thing.
at idle. There was the typical light lifter clack at idle using the M1 0-40.
Purring can't be a bad thing.
06-24-2011, 05:32 PM
#41
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Would oil analysis resolve this once and for all? I am happy with the TDT per my tuner. Actually GRATEFUL that he advised to REMOVE 15W50 IMMEDIATELY.
My engine is way WAY quieter. How can that be a BAD thing, really?
My engine is way WAY quieter. How can that be a BAD thing, really?
06-24-2011, 09:56 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
It has my personal info on it, otherwise I'd post it.
06-24-2011, 10:18 PM
#43
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Paul,
Hit "print screen" on your keyboard..
Go and open the "Paint" program located in All Programs> Accessories
Right click "Paste" and then you can have fun coloring white or black to hide your INFO...
Hit "print screen" on your keyboard..
Go and open the "Paint" program located in All Programs> Accessories
Right click "Paste" and then you can have fun coloring white or black to hide your INFO...
06-24-2011, 11:19 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
That should put the whole 10k oil change interval to rest... At least I hope.
Kevin, if you have other comments, please chime in. And as always, thank you for your contribution to this forum.