SSST

I realize it's a point analysis, but it supports some of the logic.

Mikelly

No, actually it'll only be fuel for some to argue further, because in their little narrow minds BSL doesn't know jack about Porsches... Never mind the fact that they know OIL and are a leader in their industry.

Some here think that if PORSCHE prints it in their manuals, then it is as good as god's word. They fail to remember that Porsche builds and sells merchandise.

Mike

Kevinmacd

Just curious,I have read that Porsche recommendation is for the TBN to be no less than 8.5. Is this truth or fact??? I understand as mileage builds additives get eaten up, but it would be nice to know a starting point. Anyone know?

LVDell

The report is very nice to have but to be honest I don't have a clue what we are looking at. Is there some sort of secret decoder ring that explains what each line item is measured and which ones we care or don't care about?

Kevin

Dell, The top 8 lines are wear indicators MINUS the Moly, which I wish Blackstone would push down the page. Tin, copper, lead, will typically point to your bearings. Iron, nickel will point to your gear sets, your chain, crankshaft and camshafts> oil pump gear wear will shed the high nickel steel.

Aluminum gets shed from your camshaft housings, and pump casings. In extreme IMS failures the chains will eat aluminum from the engine case.

We want to watch the trends. We do not want to see jumps in the trend lines. More frequent oil changes will produce less wear metal.

Kevinmacd>> where did you read that Porsche wants to see that high TBN number?? 80% of the cars out there will FAIL if that is the facts.

LVDell

Kevin, when you say "gear sets" what does that refer to? When I think of gear sets, I think of the transmission which I can't imagine that is what this is referring to.

Thanks for the input!

Kevinmacd

Kevin, Mobil 1 Delvac TBN is 12, so why would a TBN of 8.5 be a problem? Mobil 1 doesn't publish TBN for the non diesel oil. So if they have the ACEA A3B4 spec then the TBN has to be >8.0.
Per below link Porsche has an OEM requirement of >8.0

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40
SAE Grade 5W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 102
cSt @ 100ºC 14.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 151
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.35
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 12
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 226
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.854

It's published under the ACEA3B4 specs, Porsche is listed as one of the OEM specs. This classification says that in order to meet ACEAA3B4 spec the TBN >8.0 not 8.5 that was my mistake.
The ACEA A3B4 spec is based on European requirements.

http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/A3B408.html

Mikelly

Dell, Timing Chain and "other" gears within the motor.

Mike

LVDell

Ah, thanks Mike.

Kevin

Kevinmacd, go and look at Paul's report. In 3000 miles he is down to a TBN of 6.5 What do you think the TBN is going to be at 5K, 7.5K and 10K miles?? That was my point. It is reports like this when you switch to a Diesel oil that will give you the TBN marker.. Which is more RAW data.

Anyway you look at it, it is all "good" for the 996TT owners community.

Dell, there are many gears in this engine. Crank to IMS gears, chain/camshaft gears and 4 oil pump gearsets.

blueviewlaguna

I can get 2 good counter bias positions with a certain wrench I have, I then grab both wrenches with one hand and squeeze together to loosen to assure that I don't put pressure on the delicate tank.

Robert Pentén

hello.

Is ther any oil changing guide that I can use, maybe with some pictures of the oil plugs? or if any one have pictures? that would be nice

What is a oil vaccum that I read in this thread that I must use.


/ Best regards Robert / Sweden

LVDell

Have you checked out the DIY Repository thread pinned at the top of this forum?

Macster

That technique is incorrect. You are applying force to the tank in the opposite direction you are turning the drain plug.

The proper technique is to hold the tank with the wrench to not twist it in the opposite direction nor to of course all it to twist in the same direction as the drain plug.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Macster

While the owners manual does have that info it is not the info the techs go by when selecting or changing the oil in the Turbo engine.

In the factory manual the tech is referred to the latest tech bulletin (I forget the number (03/11 or something like that) which has a list of the currently approved oils.

Not all oils that are 0w-40, 5w-40, or 5w-50 are approved. No 10w or 15w oil is approved.

Furthermore, not all oils that have an API SH or SJ or ILSAC GF3 or ACEA classification are approved either.

My thinking is that these classifications have been so diluted, twisted about, they are no longer reliable indicators of an oil's suitability for use in an engine, at least from Porsche's point of view.

And let me address that issue: I fail to understand how those Porsche owners who must attribute considerable expertise to Porsche in all things automotive -- to the point they would and do spend considerable sums of money to purchase Porsche automobiles -- apparently believe that Porsche simply can't be trusted when it comes to engine oils.

If a quiet engine is the primary goal then why resort to 5w-40 diesel oil? Why not 10w-60 oil? After all the noise is likely to be more pronounced when the engine is up to temp so a 10w-60 oil is better in this regard than a 5w-40 oil or even a 5w-50 oil. So why stop at some piddly 5w-40 oil? At least with the 10w-60 oil one's using a oil specifically targeted for use in gasoline engines.

Anyhow, back to the diesel oils: That quietness comes I believe at the expense of proper lubrication of the engine.

The quietness comes from the fact the oil is thick, bolstered by all kinds of detergent additives (which is necessary in a diesel application due to the extremely high levels of soot a diesel engine oil collects during its service life), and anti-wear additives.

A high percentage of anti-wear additives is a signal the oil is expected to break down and the anti-wear additives are there for this eventuality.

In short, my belief is that these diesel oils are inferior oils and are propped up by the use of plenty of anti-wear additives because they need it to take up the slack.

Based on the MSDS I have seen there is only 20 to 30 percent of a group IV oil in for instance TDT oil. The rest of the ingredients are trade secret. Which is a joke on the public since any self-respecting chemical engineer at any competing oil company could tell you what's in that oil in a few minutes.

The presence of a mineral oil in the Delvac oil (and I suspect it is in the TDT oil as well) is an attempt to get that thick overloaded with additives oil (and I use the term loosely) to flow.

So, based on the MSDS of Delvac it contains just 30 percent POA (group IV syntethic oil), and no more than 20 percent mineral oil.

The rest are additives. Thus a quart of Delvac oil contains just 50% oil by weight. The rest of the bottle's weight is made up of additives.

Or IOWs, in a Turbo say 9 quarts of Delvac oil there are only 4.5 quarts of oil and the rest is additives.

In the case of TDT oil, it contains no more than 30% POA.

The ingredient with the largest percentage of concentration is Trade Secret 01 and its concentration is 40 to 50%. Now maybe this is a group V oil. Let's say it is. But this means just 80% of a quart of TDT oil is synthetic oil (a mix of group IV and group V oils).

Trade Secret 02 ingredient has a concentration of 20 to 30%. This percentage matches that of the POA concentration.

Trade Secret 03 has a concentration of 10 to 20%, which as I noted in an earlier post just happens to match the mineral oil concentration in Delvac oil.

The remaining 5 trade secret ingredients have a concentration of 5 to 10%, 5 to 10%, 1 to 5% (this is probably ZDDP), 0.1 to 1% and 0.1 to 1%.

Delvac oil and TDT oils might be suitable for diesel engines but based on what I see in their ingredients, I would *not* put either in my lawn mower, let alone my Turbo.

Sincerely,

Macster.